How to convert metal frame run to open-air coop?

[breegull]

The Plan
I'd like to turn one of those crappy metal frame chicken runs into a fully predator-proof open-air coop. This "Vevor" brand run seems like a promising starting point. (Link to their web store, but it is also sold on Amazon).

Please let me know your thoughts and suggestions for how to build.

https://vevor.com/metal-chicken-coo...uck-coop-and-rabbit-run-silver-p_010173496162

Background
Next month I am moving in to a rented house with a gorgeous backyard, where the landlord has allowed us to have chickens. Yaaay! So naturally, rather than packing moving boxes like I should be, I am instead researching and dreaming of my coop. I want to build it ASAP so there's still time for fall chicks.

I've always wanted to build a Woods-style coop, but not on rented property. The standard Woods coop is also a bit overkill for my climate (Zone 7a, near Baltimore, Maryland). Our winters are mild, so it's only the summers that I'm worried about. That got me looking into Woods' "Stoddard Southern House" design, which is like a standard Woods coop but with wire mesh replacing the walls on the entire front half, and the bottom 2' of the rear sides, for extra ventilation and mite prevention in hot climates.

THAT got me realizing that many hoop coops are actually built kind of similarly. And are a lot cheaper. But hoop coops are limited in height. My boyfriend is 6'3" and, while he will not be a primary chicken tender, I do want the coop to be tall enough for him to walk in comfortably if needed.

THAT got me looking at @Victoria-nola's (and @aart 's) modified hoop coop design, which uses extra cattle/hog panels on the sides to raise the hoop roof. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/modified-hoop-coop-design-development.1120946/

BUT, then I priced out all the cattle/hog panels, T-posts, cost to rent a truck to haul the cattle panels, time to drive to the closest Rural King (in Pennsylvania!) to save money over Tractor Supply's ridiculous prices, etc...and it was all quite expensive!

THAT made me realize that a crappy metal frame chicken coop would actually be a cheaper, faster, easier, more portable starting point. Which brings us to the present day.

Requirements

• General
  • Open-air coop/run for 8 (+chicken math?) bantam hens. Planning on using the 10'x20' model for ample space when we're not around to let them out. Deep litter method.
  • Fully predator-proof, covered in 1/2" hardware cloth with hardware cloth skirt, secure locks.
  • Per the landlord, main predators are fox and raccoon. I know we also have snakes, possum, skunk, hawks, etc. I definitely want to keep out rats and mice, and I assume weasels are always a possibility even if I've never seen them. I don't expect stray dogs, coyote, or anything larger.
  • Roosts towards the back (west or north) which will be more sheltered. Front (east or south) will be more open.
• Cover
  • Plastic roofing panels in semi-opaque and opaque, so there is a range of shade levels.
  • Might leave one portion of roof uncovered and open to rain, and put a compost pile underneath that spot. Or should I keep everything as dry as the site allows?
  • Run mainly open to the south and east. Northeast preferably also open enough to keep chickens visible from the house.
  • Run closed/mostly closed to the west, the side that borders the neighbor's property.
  • Closing to the north may or may not be necessary, depending on proximity to the shed. The house and shed should block major wind, I think.
• Added coop (or faux coop??)
  • IMPORTANT: Need to add a structure that looks like a more traditional (enclosed) coop. Zoning requires a 15' setback for coops, but the run will be set closer to the fence than that. So there will be "the run" and there will be a separate "coop" structure, either inside of the run or sticking off of it, depending on what it takes to keep it 15' away from fence line.
  • Coop to have 2-3 communal nest boxes and an external egg collection door, accessible from near the sidewalk.
  • While intention is for chickens to sleep out in sheltered portion of run, coop could have some roosts (still with good ventilation even though more covered) in case anyone decides to sleep there instead.
  • The coop could possibly be built to accommodate a silky, like with some extra-low roost space that is still sheltered and dry. It would be nice to have the option of getting a silky of it can handle this type of setup. Otherwise I'll stick with flying bantams.

The Site
A 40'x30' corner of the yard. (The fence is 40') It's shaded by a huge willow tree and sandwiched between a workshop/garage to the south (left) and a shed to the north (right). The shed has electrical hookups and a water spigot right outside, so the coop/run will be placed close by.

I will probably end up fencing the whole 40x30 corner with electric poultry netting, and make that the chicken yard. So I want to keep a few feet of open space around the run in each direction.

I'm leaning towards an east-west orientation for the run, so it gets most of the willow's shade in summer, and so the run door can be right off of the sidewalk to the east. (Note, I'll try to get exact measurements and make a sketch of the plan tomorrow). The coop could be placed on the north side, out of the hot summer sun, with the egg access door reachable from the sidewalk to the north. That would put it in compliance with the 15' setback, regardless of whether it's inside or outside the run.

The other option is a north-south orientation, parallel to the fence, sandwiched between willow and fence. The coop would have to stick out the east side of the run for the setback. Im leaning away from that option.

Construction (How the heck should I do this??)
Trying to keep the build cheap, so only using lumber where necessary. Note, I'm assuming the east-west orientation for the run.

Attach hardware cloth* to entire frame with metal zipties, metal conduit strapping, and plastic UV-rated zipties.

*Will 4' hardware cloth be tall enough, or should I use 5'? The run walls are 44" high, so 48" sounds like a tight fit on the rounded frame.

Door might need a bit of thin wood to close gaps.

Not exactly sure how to do the roof hardware cloth. Run along the 20' length...is it enough to overlap the sheets and stitch together with wire and zipties, or should I add a thin strip of wood?

I suppose some thin strips of wood will be necessary anyways, for screwing in the corrugated roofing panels?

Can the cheapo metal tubing handle the weight of hardware cloth + several plastic roofing panels? Will it need extra bracing? If so, how?

The short end of the run, with no door, to be covered up with plywood. Do I cut it to fit inside of the tubing frame and attach with metal conduit straps? How much (if any) ventilation to leave open along the top of that short wall?

I'm thinking the back third of the run can be fully covered down the walls as well. Should I keep a couple feet of wall open along the bottom as in the Woods Stoddard house, or close it all the way down to the ground? Leaning towards fully closed, on south and north sides, so I can put a brooder/hospital cage down there and not worry about wind.

I'm not going to cut the 8' corrugated panels, so there will presumably be1-2' of overhang in the back.

The middle third, I would probably cover with roofing panels on the entire roof but none of the walls. Overlapping the back panel due to slope.

The front third, I could use the included crappy tarp. But more likely, I'll use panels here as well, overlapping the middle ones and with a 1-2' overhang in the front. I'm thinking I'll put roof panels over the top and north of the roof arch and leave the south side of the arch uncovered to let some rain into the run. My theory is that it would help with compost (I'd like to toss our chicken-safe food waste into that part of the run). I'm pretty sure the slope will carry excess water to the west, away from the door. But I could be totally wrong and maybe it's best to keep it all out of the rain as much as possible. I haven't seen the yard in the rain yet.

Out of all those roofing panels, I'm not sure which should be opaque and which should be semi-opaque or even transparent. I want to let a lot of light in but I don't want to create a greenhouse.

I'm envisioning the coop/nestbox being the same length as the front third of the run, to simplify construction. The easiest thing would be to put the egg door in the wall of the run, and have the entire coop and nests inside the run (directly to the right of the door when you walk in).

Not sure how much effort I really need to put into making it be a "real" coop rather than just a standalone nestbox. I'm pretty sure nobody actually enforces or inspects the zoning stuff in our county. So if it looks coop-ish on the outside it's probably fine. But if there's a good way to add roosts, I will. Maybe the chickens will appreciate having a more covered sleeping option, especially in the winter. If there's a particular minimalist coop design that would fit well, please let me know. (~6' across; ~3'(?) deep; back wall and top of egg access door ~44" and nests placed accordingly; nests either inside that space with horizontal egg door, or in the classic sticky-outy nestbox with angled lid.

Trying to minimize mites and such, so everything to be as plain and smooth as possible, without a lot of nooks and crannies. Plan to use some type of ventilated plastic or wire baskets for nests, as recommended in the Stoddard plan.

Roosts in the run to be held up by sawhorses etc, rather than attached to the run walls per the Stoddard plan.

Locks to be completely replaced by hasps with carabiners or whatever else is most secure.

YOUR ADVICE!
Your thoughts, tips, feedback, critiques are all appreciated. I'll update this thread with more details or adjustments as things develop.

Thanks BYC peeps! I'm so thrilled to be getting back into chickens again!!!

 

[Victoria-nola]

This is Victoria-nola, who built the hoop coop you mention. Yes, it was expensive, estimated $1,000 for the roughly 24x12x12+H, but it is still standing quite a few years later and completely secure.You've written a lot of descriptive text and right now I'm not able to take it all in, but I'm going to share my initial impressions and concerns. I totally support the deep litter method, using large-flake pine shavings. Nesting boxes should be lined with sweet hay. Do not put the pine shavings in nesting boxes, there needs to be a different texture material in those.

My primary concern is that you seem to be saying that you dont plan to put roosts inside the covered area and that roosts would only be present out in the open without solid roof. If I've misunderstood, please forgive. However, checking online I find that low winter temps in Baltimore range between 20 and 30 degrees F. That is below freezing for 3 months. So, you must provide real cover that is completely safe from excess cold and wind. And despite whatever fads are going around, chickens roost (sleep) in trees in the wild. I have found that 2x4 lumber placed with the wider side as the roosting surface is best, as that allows them to settle their feathers over their feet at night, and they dont particularly like having to grip to stay in place.

Enclosed sides should be the sides that the worst winter weather and wind comes from, regardless of where the sidewalk is. The enclosed area need not be super large if they also have a secure run for daytime, but it needs to be able to contain food and water. A favorite coop had a solid roof, with 3 open sides covered in well-supported hardware cloth. I had removable panels to enclose at least 2 more sides for winter, but I wound up always needing double clear plastic over the front 4th side in winter, and that was in New Orleans. Also, I wound up feeling conflicted about 3 open sides even during summer, because it seemed to me the birds felt more secure roosting in an enclosed space vs where wind and rain was blowing in.

Security. From what you've described, there could be a risk of predator intrusion in the areas where the roof connects with the side walls. Weasels and rats, not to mention skunks and possums, can all scoot through small openings and will attempt to enlarge holes if possible. Same with spaces around gates. And I'm not convinced about an egg collecting door. All those angles and openings are vulnerable, and you should be going into the coop every day to check on the chickens' health and well being, as well as cleaning and refilling waterers and feeders.

But I am concerned that you seem to think that chickens can survive in an open coop in freezing weather, which is not true. Chickens are native to tropical rain forests.

I also need to question trying to get fall birds when you're not moving for another month. You really should observe your site during rain to understand for real the drainage and what you'll need to ameliorate. My experience is that, it's best if they have a snug enclosed solid roof, because if it rains or snows inside their enclosed area it keeps their litter wet and damp, which breeds mold etc, and the same if the yard drains into the enclosed area, the ground will always be wet, getting the litter wet, which defeats the deep litter method. Btw, it takes a few weeks of warm weather for deep litter to really get going to where it's composting in place, which you probably wont have this fall, which leads to foul litter with ammonia smells in winter, which is very bad for chickens to breathe. I'vehad all these problems.

Ideally they also have a secure run with secure but open-air roof, or otherwise have the ability to get sunshine and breezes (e.g. let out into a aemi-secure area during the day but locked up at night). But you have real predators who will find a way in if there are weaknesses in security. Automatic chicken doors are very helpful.

That's what I've got at the moment. Hope this helps.

Victoria

 

[Krugerrand]

BUT, then I priced out all the cattle/hog panels, T-posts, cost to rent a truck to haul the cattle panels, time to drive to the closest Rural King (in Pennsylvania!) to save money over Tractor Supply's ridiculous prices, etc...and it was all quite expensive!

Do you have/access to anything with a roof rack:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/transporting-cattle-panel.77942/

 

[Sefirothe]

I have one of these pens in a smaller size. I've seen enough reviews of them collapsing under snow loads that you WILL need to brace the roof some how if you are adding extra weight with roofing material and if you get any snow in the winter.

I put the flimsy chicken wire up on it, but bought a 4' wide roll of hardware cloth. I put that 3 feet up the sides with a 1 foot apron around the whole thing. So far its kept out possums, raccoons, skunks and the neighborhood feral cats.

I'm using this as a temporary grow out coop and should have a wood built coop and run done before winter. If i don't take this pen down when the girls are moved out, I'll probably brace up the top ridge pole with at least a 2x4 at the front and back for the winter.

 

[breegull]

Btw, it takes a few weeks of warm weather for deep litter to really get going to where it's composting in place, which you probably wont have this fall, which leads to foul litter with ammonia smells in winter, which is very bad for chickens to breathe. I'vehad all these problems.

Hi Victoria, thanks for stopping by! And thanks for the great write-up of your design process, it's been a huge help. And I do apologize for my huge walls of text, haha!

I'm using the term "open air" to mean that it has an open front and partial openness on the sides (except when covered for winterization). The roof, back wall, and rear of the side walls would all be solid, either plywood or roofing panels. Similar to Ms Biddy's hoop coop: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/ms-biddys-cattle-panel-hoop-coop.73755/

In winter I'd close up whatever additional areas are needed, either with more roofing panels or by wrapping with plastic. I'm also planning on adding some straw bales as additional insulation/windbreaks.

The coop structure would either be inside the secure run or or attached outside of it, vaguely like the placement in this tractor supply setup. Coop details are still totally TBD, but any potential openness of the coop, would be towards the south.

The owners of the home kept chickens and small livestock in that part of the yard and in the shed, so they'd definitely know about any problems with drainage. I'll ask them if there are any problematic areas over there.

Good point about potentially needing to get the compost jump-started for the deep litter method. That should be easy to do--I have several different compost starters and will have plenty of compostable material.

 

[NatJ]

• Added coop (or faux coop??)
  • IMPORTANT: Need to add a structure that looks like a more traditional (enclosed) coop. Zoning requires a 15' setback for coops, but the run will be set closer to the fence than that. So there will be "the run" and there will be a separate "coop" structure, either inside of the run or sticking off of it, depending on what it takes to keep it 15' away from fence line.
  • Coop to have 2-3 communal nest boxes and an external egg collection door, accessible from near the sidewalk.
  • While intention is for chickens to sleep out in sheltered portion of run, coop could have some roosts (still with good ventilation even though more covered) in case anyone decides to sleep there instead.
  • The coop could possibly be built to accommodate a silky, like with some extra-low roost space that is still sheltered and dry. It would be nice to have the option of getting a silky of it can handle this type of setup. Otherwise I'll stick with flying bantams.

This is one place that a cutesy little prefab coop might be good. They often have plenty of nestboxes but not much space for anything else-- which is just fine if you only need it to hold nestboxes and LOOK like a coop, and the chickens never really have to spend time inside.

I would check any local places that sell chicken coops (like TSC), and see what is the cheapest "coop" they have, then consider whether it will meet your needs. This is the right time of year for end-of-season sales, so you might find something cheaper than anything you could build.

People often say the quality of the prefab ones is poor, but in this case you don't need it to keep out predators, and you don't need the roof to resist snow if it is inside a covered run, and you don't need to worry as much about ventilation if it is really just a glorified nestbox and a thing to placate zoning officers with tape measures.

You could also consider child's playhouses for the same purpose (again, look for one that is used or on sale.)

 

[breegull]

I have one of these pens in a smaller size. I've seen enough reviews of them collapsing under snow loads that you WILL need to brace the roof some how if you are adding extra weight with roofing material and if you get any snow in the winter.

I put the flimsy chicken wire up on it, but bought a 4' wide roll of hardware cloth. I put that 3 feet up the sides with a 1 foot apron around the whole thing. So far its kept out possums, raccoons, skunks and the neighborhood feral cats.

I'm using this as a temporary grow out coop and should have a wood built coop and run done before winter. If i don't take this pen down when the girls are moved out, I'll probably brace up the top ridge pole with at least a 2x4 at the front and back for the winter.

View attachment 3632479

I've been reading a ton of reviews of these kits, and I'm leaning towards the peaked roof style like yours. It definitely looks like bracing will be needed, especially along the ridge pole. For the version that is 2 sections long, I saw that someone used a vertical chain-link fence pole with the top loop cap to support the middle joint.

I've also learned that these kits come in 2 different thicknesses. The Vevor brand and most others, are made from 25mm diameter pipe with .8mm thick wall. A few brands offer versions with a sturdier pipe that's 32mm diameter with 1mm thick wall. So I'll definitely do the sturdier option. Also with a vertical support pole along the back wall like yours seems to have...some kits have those but most don't.

I may still buy the smallest Vevor to use as a greenhouse, and swap its door onto the chicken run. Nobody else has a door that nice.

I found this youtube example where they added roof panels and raised the frame up with wood and landscape blocks.

This amazon reviewer did something similar but also with plywood added to the back and sides. The review didn't mention those horizontal cross-braces they have on each section, but I assume it's actual sturdy steel tubing and clamps of a similar diameter.

 

[breegull]

Do you have/access to anything with a roof rack:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/transporting-cattle-panel.77942/

Sadly, no.

 

[breegull]

This is one place that a cutesy little prefab coop might be good. They often have plenty of nestboxes but not much space for anything else-- which is just fine if you only need it to hold nestboxes and LOOK like a coop, and the chickens never really have to spend time inside.

I would check any local places that sell chicken coops (like TSC), and see what is the cheapest "coop" they have, then consider whether it will meet your needs. This is the right time of year for end-of-season sales, so you might find something cheaper than anything you could build.

People often say the quality of the prefab ones is poor, but in this case you don't need it to keep out predators, and you don't need the roof to resist snow if it is inside a covered run, and you don't need to worry as much about ventilation if it is really just a glorified nestbox and a thing to placate zoning officers with tape measures.

You could also consider child's playhouses for the same purpose (again, look for one that is used or on sale.)

That's a great point, thanks! I'll look around at some used or on-sale coops and playhouses to see what's out there.

I'm also going to contact the zoning office next week to double-check that my reading of the ordinance is correct, that the coop is the only thing with a setback requirement and the run can be wherever. If I'm wrong then I may have to use a smaller 10x13 frame for the run, which would be a bummer but would still be plenty for 8ish bantams.

 

[Sefirothe]

I've been reading a ton of reviews of these kits, and I'm leaning towards the peaked roof style like yours. It definitely looks like bracing will be needed, especially along the ridge pole. For the version that is 2 sections long, I saw that someone used a vertical chain-link fence pole with the top loop cap to support the middle joint.

I've also learned that these kits come in 2 different thicknesses. The Vevor brand and most others, are made from 25mm diameter pipe with .8mm thick wall. A few brands offer versions with a sturdier pipe that's 32mm diameter with 1mm thick wall. So I'll definitely do the sturdier option. Also with a vertical support pole along the back wall like yours seems to have...some kits have those but most don't.

I specifically bought this one because it has the thicker pipe, corner bracing and support pipe in the middle of the back wall. Its from this Amazon listing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BVQ181HC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1