HOW TO FEED YOUR CHICKENS if there is no scratch or pellets?

[Brenda Jones]

Question, so what are you doing differently than me? When I fermented my feed during the winter, I had to use a 5 gallon bucket to feed my birds. Maybe I just have more birds than everyone else. I have 13 chickens, 10 ducks. Does that sound about right? I keep hearing 1 gallon bucket, and now 1/2 gallon jar and I'm wondering why I need such a big bucket.

I only have 2 girls and I keep the 1/2 gallon jar refreshed constantly- if I pull a half cup of food out I put a half cup of dry food and cover with water back in. I usually offer about a half cup of fermented grain/seeds and a 1/4 cup of soaked pellets... if they are foraging it will usually take them 2 days to go through the rations. the grasses have not come up here yet so I also still supplement sprouted seeds and grasses for them until the lawn starts growing again

 

[ILChickenTV]

Even now, with feed and food prices rising, any way to save on the feed bill and still get high quality eggs is welcome.
I think I have a pretty good formula that I'd like to try, maybe as a supplement to commercial feed, but from the math I could plug in it looks like this should have a good balance as a sole ration.
19 pts corn
7pts brewers spent grain
3pts fishmeal
1pt oyster shell or free choice
Maybe a bit of gypsum

It's on the high end for fat and fiber, but it should be acceptable. I'm still not sure if I have the amino acid calculations right. It's not clear if the are listed as % of ration or % of protein.
@U_Stormcrow I would love to hear your opinion on this.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Even now, with feed and food prices rising, any way to save on the feed bill and still get high quality eggs is welcome.
I think I have a pretty good formula that I'd like to try, maybe as a supplement to commercial feed, but from the math I could plug in it looks like this should have a good balance as a sole ration.
19 pts corn
7pts brewers spent grain
3pts fishmeal
1pt oyster shell or free choice
Maybe a bit of gypsum

It's on the high end for fat and fiber, but it should be acceptable. I'm still not sure if I have the amino acid calculations right. It's not clear if the are listed as % of ration or % of protein.
@U_Stormcrow I would love to hear your opinion on this.

I've assumed the Fertrell's Fishmeal. I've also assumed dried Brewers grains (and Note: HUGE variation in the value of brewers grains).

End result? Much better than I first anticipated. Good to be pleasantly surprised. The Fishmeal (of course) is a bit part of it.

Anyhow, without correcting for the moisture content, which will lower these results less than 10%, and the addition of oyster shell would lower it further still (about 3%) the quick summary is:

18.7% Protein, 5.8% Fiber, 4.9% fat - Methionine 0.4% (Good, thank the fishmeal), Lysine 0.85% (Good, again, the fish meal), Threonine 0.68% (Fish meal + Spent Grains compensate for the low corn - this is well within the 0.6-0.8% desired range), Tryptophan 0.19% (0.2% is target, this is likely "close enough"). A little more fish meal, or a fish meal wirth a higher protein than Fertrells will do it. A bit of blood meal. Some soy, peanut, or cottonseed meal will all also do it - very little (1 part) would be enough.

and I can't do the vitamin breakdowns yet - that's days worth of work I've not found motivation for yet

/edit How huge? Feedipedia's data is based on 101 samples of Dried Spent Brewer's grains. The protein content varied from just 19.5% to 31.9%! The average (which my calculator uses) is 25.8%, with a standard deviation of +/- 3.1%

One of the limitations to home brew feeds, you can't test your inputs, you have to rely on averages and assumptions which may not represent the product you are actually using.

 

[ILChickenTV]

I've assumed the Fertrell's Fishmeal. I've also assumed dried Brewers grains (and Note: HUGE variation in the value of brewers grains).

End result? Much better than I first anticipated. Good to be pleasantly surprised. The Fishmeal (of course) is a bit part of it.

Anyhow, without correcting for the moisture content, which will lower these results less than 10%, and the addition of oyster shell would lower it further still (about 3%) the quick summary is:

18.7% Protein, 5.8% Fiber, 4.9% fat - Methionine 0.4% (Good, thank the fishmeal), Lysine 0.85% (Good, again, the fish meal), Threonine 0.68% (Fish meal + Spent Grains compensate for the low corn - this is well within the 0.6-0.8% desired range), Tryptophan 0.19% (0.2% is target, this is likely "close enough"). A little more fish meal, or a fish meal wirth a higher protein than Fertrells will do it. A bit of blood meal. Some soy, peanut, or cottonseed meal will all also do it - very little (1 part) would be enough.

and I can't do the vitamin breakdowns yet - that's days worth of work I've not found motivation for yet

/edit How huge? Feedipedia's data is based on 101 samples of Dried Spent Brewer's grains. The protein content varied from just 19.5% to 31.9%! The average (which my calculator uses) is 25.8%, with a standard deviation of +/- 3.1%

One of the limitations to home brew feeds, you can't test your inputs, you have to rely on averages and assumptions which may not represent the product you are actually using.

Thanks a bunch! I was pretty close on my numbers then.
The fishmeal really would end up with a lot of variation as well, seeing as I'm grinding it myself. I would dry everything as best as I can, but I don't have a professional dehydrator or anything. I'm hoping that at least the variety of fish I'm have access to would average out.
But yes, consistency is my main concern for switching over entirely to this feed.
As an aside, my soon to be wife likes the chickens, but hates the smell of fish...

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thanks a bunch! I was pretty close on my numbers then.
The fishmeal really would end up with a lot of variation as well, seeing as I'm grinding it myself. I would dry everything as best as I can, but I don't have a professional dehydrator or anything. I'm hoping that at least the variety of fish I'm have access to would average out.
But yes, consistency is my main concern for switching over entirely to this feed.
As an aside, my soon to be wife likes the chickens, but hates the smell of fish...

assuming you are grinding the fish with bones and scales, you likely won't need added calcium in the feed - though a little oyster shell on the side is always good. That's your non-phytate phospherous source as well.

 

[ILChickenTV]

assuming you are grinding the fish with bones and scales, you likely won't need added calcium in the feed - though a little oyster shell on the side is always good. That's your non-phytate phosphorous source as well.

That's what I was originally hoping, but I couldn't find any information averaging the values of fish-market waste (bones with flesh between them, whole heads, etc.) I could always use a bit more if there are too many bones, but I don't know how I would find that out. I could potentially use Fertrell, I think with the amount needed it could still be economical, but if you have access to information on fish-market waste I would be thrilled.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

You just need to search a little further afield.

This is from ICAR (cached copy)
This is from the UK and insightful, if not directly translatable to raw numbers, there is some useful data

This is more than you want to do - but I really find these "Peace Corps-type" projects interesting and occasionally useful.

You can also find articles on fish silage, which again, is likely more than you want to do.

Hopefully, that's enough of a head start that you can find the path from there.

I don't have any info myself - I just have some practice looking for things.

 

[saysfaa]

Thanks a bunch! I was pretty close on my numbers then.
The fishmeal really would end up with a lot of variation as well, seeing as I'm grinding it myself. I would dry everything as best as I can, but I don't have a professional dehydrator or anything. I'm hoping that at least the variety of fish I'm have access to would average out.
But yes, consistency is my main concern for switching over entirely to this feed.
As an aside, my soon to be wife likes the chickens, but hates the smell of fish...

Why are you drying it?
That is how nutritional profiles are figured because moisture level is so variable and easy to control. That isn't why you are drying it, is it?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Why are you drying it?
That is how nutritional profiles are figured because moisture level is so variable and easy to control. That isn't why you are drying it, is it?

Usually its dried for longer-term storage. Spent brewers grains when damp, are an excellent medium for all sorts of things to colonize - and generally speaking, most of those things you don't actually want in your feed.

Here's what Feedipedia.org had to say:

Potential constraints
Brewers grains are a safe feed provided that they are properly stored. In particular, wet brewers grains are susceptible to bacterial and fungal contamination (mycotoxins) and care should be taken to feed only unspoilt brewers grains .

That comment based, in part, on this study.

 

[ILChickenTV]

This is more than you want to do - but I really find these "Peace Corps-type" projects interesting and occasionally useful.

Definitely a lot of fun to read.

Why are you drying it?
That is how nutritional profiles are figured because moisture level is so variable and easy to control. That isn't why you are drying it, is it?

I'm drying it to be able get as close to the right proportions of different ingredients as I can, water content throws that off. I should also be able to make more at a time with less risk of spoilage.