HOW TO FEED YOUR CHICKENS if there is no scratch or pellets?

[Weeg]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm an avid gardener and beginner permaculturist who's planning on raising quail in the near-ish future, and I'm intending to supplement their diet with home grown food; however, their higher protein requirements compared to chickens are making it somewhat difficult to decide what to grow. Siberian peashrub grown along one wall of their aviary could go a long way to supplementing their feed, but it's not nearly enough on its own; I'm also considering growing ragweed for the absurdly high protein content (up to 50% in some giant ragweed plants!), as well as various species of millet for carbohydrates. Any suggestions for other things I could grow for them?

Alfalfa is high in protein. Maybe a good option. The plant its self is great so theres no need to harvest the beans.

 

[TooCheep]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm an avid gardener and beginner permaculturist who's planning on raising quail in the near-ish future, and I'm intending to supplement their diet with home grown food; however, their higher protein requirements compared to chickens are making it somewhat difficult to decide what to grow. Siberian peashrub grown along one wall of their aviary could go a long way to supplementing their feed, but it's not nearly enough on its own; I'm also considering growing ragweed for the absurdly high protein content (up to 50% in some giant ragweed plants!), as well as various species of millet for carbohydrates. Any suggestions for other things I could grow for them?

I hope you aren't near anyone if you are thinking of growing ragweed. The pollen is a major allergen for many people. I have a peashrub for my chickens, but it is still too young to have produced peas yet.

I don't know much about quail, but you might want to check into raising mealworms or black soldier fly larvae. They are great for chickens, but you should check if they are okay for quail.

 

[Alagirl]

\Cool! We don't have a ton of space ufortunetly, but I cold always create a garden bed within the coop if we needed more space. I could probably easily find locations to add other raised beds as well. Probably a good idea now that I'm thinking about it.
I want to plant as much as possible. Maybe grow corn, though I don't think that has a ton of nutritional value. Probably way more fresh than dried corn though.
What about soy beans? They are a pretty complete protein source. I try to avoid them in chicken feed due to commercial spraying, but it could probably be beneficial if it was grown from organic seeds.

when you grow corn you have to consider it is wind pollinated, so you have to grow a block vs long rows.
while I am a tree hugger, I am not too worried about 'normal' seeds vs organic. I mean the production should be more caring of Mother Earth, but the seeds themselves are a small portion of the product.
You can grow a lot of produce on a relatively small lot if you know how to mix and match, etc. there are tons of books out, the library and county extension should have material about it. I just picked up 'Square Foot Gardening' this winter.

I am experimenting at this point, between things that grow in my poor soil, and things we like to eat. The stuff you cut off the veggies can always go to the chickens.
As I am planning on a small flock (about 6 birds) I have also thought about supplementing feed from the grocery store if needed. like dry beans, etc. which can be sprouted easily enough, along with oatmeal etc.
In Vegetarian literature, it is suggested that corn with beans produces a complete protein. I don't get the science behind that, but the Inca and Mayans lived off that for hundreds of years. Good thing chickens can eat worms and grubs, too.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

In Vegetarian literature, it is suggested that corn with beans produces a complete protein. I don't get the science behind that, but the Inca and Mayans lived off that for hundreds of years. Good thing chickens can eat worms and grubs, too.

It has to do with amino acid complimentation. Plant-based proteins are incomplete - they often have low (or effectively no) levels of certain critical amino acids making up their proteins. For purposes of chicken keeping, the four most inmportant, in order, are Methionine, Lysine, Threonine, Tryptophan.

In general, Methionine is hard to find adequate amounts. PERIOD. Its also the most important AA, particularly for hatchlings. A chicken's need for it declines as they age. Per pound, your best sources come from legumes and dried legume forage (soybeans, soybean meals, cottonseed meal, peanut meal), plus sesame seed, tef, hemp seed, and white "proso" millet. Italian "green" millet, amaranth, fenugreek and gram are all average sources. Won't boost your Met levels vs target, but won't hurt them, either. many of those sources are very high fat, so their use needs to be limited.

Lysine is next most important. Once again, soy and soy meal do very well here (its about as close as you will get to a complete and balanced plant protein). Cottonseed and peanut meals. Then come all the beans (ever wondered about rice and beans? This is the bean's contribution). Faba beans, cowpeas, lentils, winter peas, gram and fenugreek slip in there, then chickpeas. Most of these need heat treatment to correct some antinutrituve properties, and some need to be kept to small portions of the chicken's diet for other reasons as well - usually the presence of tannins, beta glucans, tryptosin inhibitors.

Threonine is next - and the list looks much like the Lysine list, beginning, once more with soy meal then descending thru the beans.

Finally, Tryptophan. Yeah, there's that soy meal again. As it turns out, birds don't need a lot of tryptophan, and its almost impossible to make a diet low in the stuff in the typical wheat-based or corn and soy based diet.

Regarding millets, in general, the darker the millet, the less nutritious it is for your birds - not only on the basis of chemical assays, but also due to increasing tannin levels, which can interfere with absorption of nutrients.
As to the beans, in general, cowpeas (black eyed peas, etc) are superior to faba are superior to lentils are superior to winter peas are superior to chickpeas - but the last two reverse with regard Lysine and Threonine.

Since all this stuff is complicated, and involves delicate balancing, I strongly recommend avoiding monolithic plantings of a single crop or two, which can easily imbalance a diet, and instead placing a large number of scattered plantings from multiple categories - I have four varieties of clover growing, for instance - each comes into seed at a slightly different time. I've planted amaranth, sorghum, buckwheat, millets. Have a number of herbs - fenugreek, yes, but also thyme, oregano, trying to get some mint to take hold. Planitng peanut this year, if I can find some. None of the peas have done well for me, will make more effort at those next year.

Then let the chickens forage.

 

[GigitheBackyardHerbilist]

Out of curiosity, where did you get those seeds from? And is there any difference in seeds for planting and seeds for birds/eating?

Just went to Menards and bought a 50 pd bag of oil sunflower seeds.

 

[GabrielBernard]

No. My pond is way too big for a small solar pump. I've looked. Imagine a "pond" measuring 20' x 30' by about 3' deep - almost 5' in the rainy season. That's 18-30k gallons.

Have you tried using an old big barrel or several as a kind of pond filter/airater?
Basically fill it with zeolithe/claypebbles, connect two(or more) barrels with a pipe in the upper third of the barrel and let the pump pump water into the first barrel and filter it, until it overruns into the second barrel.

Where it is also filtrated and airated(did i write that right?) and then it can overrun into another barrel again....and then back into the pond from a certain height to mix up the water and bring oxygen into it.

You basically can use a rather weak pump to pump water into the first barrel and then it is all gravity.
If done right gravity even will pull water into the barrels when the pump fails or there is a power outage.

And after a year you can empty the first barrel and put the mud mix into the compost and fill it with new filtration material.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Have you tried using an old big barrel or several as a kind of pond filter/airater?
Basically fill it with zeolithe/claypebbles, connect two(or more) barrels with a pipe in the upper third of the barrel and let the pump pump water into the first barrel and filter it, until it overruns into the second barrel.

Where it is also filtrated and airated(did i write that right?) and then it can overrun into another barrel again....and then back into the pond from a certain height to mix up the water and bring oxygen into it.

You basically can use a rather weak pump to pump water into the first barrel and then it is all gravity.
If done right gravity even will pull water into the barrels when the pump fails or there is a power outage.

And after a year you can empty the first barrel and put the mud mix into the compost and fill it with new filtration material.

More likely, I'll build a bog filter (the original plan) and pump into that.

 

[Johnthefarmer]

I'm interested in the lime-part of your post. Could you specify what kind of lime this is: the one to paint with or agricultural lime? I'm always looking for surplus calcium apart from saved eggshells, which is not available here. Right now I'm grinding up cow's bones which I found by the roadside. Sorry for going offtopic...

Sorry for the delay in responding. Somehow I missed the question and the notification.
We get lime powder from Oyster shells. I confirmed from the following article that you may use Agricultural lime as well.

Finely grounded egg shells can be mixed with the dry feed.

https://learnpoultry.com/best-calcium-sources-chickens/

 

[Andolyn11]

Hello!! Great thread. Does anyone have a recipe of grains that we can use that will be ok for chickens and ducks if the complete feed becomes too difficult to find or too expensive?? Something we can store longer than the pelleted feed. (three months) I understand grains will last up to two years, but I am getting conflicting info on the web as to what to combine. I live at 6,000 feet in the mountains of Arizona so the soil, rain amount and short growing season makes planting difficult. It is also a challenge to get some of the grains that are available in the Midwest, like milo. Thank you!

 

[Alagirl]

Hello!! Great thread. Does anyone have a recipe of grains that we can use that will be ok for chickens and ducks if the complete feed becomes too difficult to find or too expensive?? Something we can store longer than the pelleted feed. (three months) I understand grains will last up to two years, but I am getting conflicting info on the web as to what to combine. I live at 6,000 feet in the mountains of Arizona so the soil, rain amount and short growing season makes planting difficult. It is also a challenge to get some of the grains that are available in the Midwest, like milo. Thank you!

In terms of produce gardening, you might have to look into some of the native american ways of farming arid climates.
grain lasts a year at least - if stored properly.
I am sure you can get about anything these days, but it'll cost you (S&H at least)