How to handle this? Opinions Please.

[cparian]

It's too small to be considered a waterway & is owned under the riparian rights in the bundle of rights within the ownership of the property. We are allowed to fence it in if we wanted. I just don't see how you can fence in a creek. It seems things would get caught up in the fence when the water was high & I really would like to keep things as natural as possible.

Also I feel it's kinda like people being responsible for containing their animals. It's not really your responsibility to keep the animals out of your yard, it's theirs to keep them in. Like I said if my goats came into their yard & ate their landscaping plants, and I said oh ya know, that's just goats being goats, I don't think they would say oh yeah that's fine, we're all neighbors.

As for it being an attractive nusiance, I think anything could be named this, such as a fountain in your landscaping pond. I still wouldn't think people should feel it's okay if their kids play in your landscaping pond without permission just because they were drawn to the pretty fish.


Imp - good to hear it does work without hard feelings.

My neighbors on my immediate street have always called me to ask & come with their kids, & I never had to ask them to do it, they just did. I believe this is common courtesy.

 

[CityChicker]

I can tell you right now, you are in for trouble.

You need to immediately stop with looking at this like what people "should" do. That is probably completely pointless. No offense. If I have learned anything in life, it is that people do not take kindly to being told what they "should" do. Nor do they like being told what their responsibility is. In fact, there seems to be a lot of people that when asked to do what they "should" do will go out of their way to do what they "shouldn't" do, especially when things like parenting are called into question.

Several people have suggested a fence and/or signs. If you don't want to do that, I suppose you are limited to speaking with the parents (good luck with that) or calling the law. It *may* work out wonderfully if you talk to the parents. I just wouldn't count on it. If you don't want to do the fence, don't do it. I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to do it, but it is kind of hard to define what is *your* property and what is *their* property without some sort of boundary (fence, sign, etc...).

 

[welsummerchicks]

Obviously the people who are using your creek don't see it that way; acting as if they should or would, won't work. Some people follow various unwritten laws of courtesy and some do not.

I wonder if you could just try talking to the parents. I wouldn't send letters home with the children, I'd go speak to them personally. I'd call them and ask them when is a good time to get together and chat about the neighborhood. I wouldn't drop in unexpectedly, and I would absolutely not speak to the children to start the dialogue.

Yes, in fact, a pool, fountain or other item can indeed be treated in a court of law, as an attractive nuisance.

I hate to inform you, and I know how much people hate it and think it's unfair, but 'attractive nuisance' is a basic principle of civil law and people have been successfully sued for having an 'attractive nuisance' in their yard that children can access. Abandoned cars, sand piles, but especially pools, have been handled legally as 'attractive nuisances'. You can imagine how someone might feel if their toddler disappeared for a moment and wound up drowned in a neighbor's pool. Though the legal principle really started for the sake of managing unfenced junk yards, and the like.

It may seem very unfair to you, but you need to be very aware that this concept exists in civil law and prepare your property. It varies from state to state. I make no position on its rightness or wrongness. My only point is that your decisions should be informed ones.

There are really two kinds of laws in most countries - criminal and civil. You can, indeed, be in a bad position re civil law, if you have a creek, small children have easy access to it, and you do not take 'reasonable action' to prevent them having access.

Putting up no trespassing signs doesn't legally, resolve the problem entirely. Especially when the children are too young to read. In that case, fences are often the only way the home owner avoids liability. The home owner needs to show that s/he has taken REASONABLE action to protect children.

There are other factors of course. A home owner isn't expected to remove a mile long cliff, a huge rock outcropping, or the like at the cost of millions of dollars. The cost and bother of 'eliminating' the hazard can't be impossible to bear, in fact it has to be reasonable. But a fence is considered reasonable cost (even though some types are very costly).

Fencing a property publicly establishes where the property line is. Without a fence, you have more of a problem as there is the implication that you do not mind if people use the property and have not taken 'reasonable' actions to close off access to the creek.

In fact, if someone builds something over on your property line and you do nothing, they eventually can, under certain circumstances, gain the rights to that land.

You may feel that these people should behave as other people have in your past, but they clearly don't behave that way and aren't going to change. My suggestion is to build a fence. It can be done so it blends beautifully with the scenery.

It sounds like you don't want to build a fence and would prefer to just have a chat with their parents and have that solve the problem.

I'd suggest that marking your property line in SOME way may help, but I think the best option is a fence. It need not detract from the scenery. A split rail or snake fence over that area could look very rustic and beautiful and could be installed easily in a few hours by you and your relatives or friends.

Things catching on the fence just need to be tidied up after spring. It's only really once a year, and even then, only when there is a big spring thaw.

 

[CityChicker]

Again, that is something that is similar here, Welsummerchicks, in regards to use of someone else's property. It is probably not an immediate issue in the OP's case, but I know there is a law here that if someone uses a piece of your property for a certain length of time without you expressly forbidding it, it becomes their piece of property (if I remember correctly from school, it is like 8 or 9 years here in CO).

Anyway, I was going to bring up the legal issue with not having a body of water fenced, but didn't in my initial post. If you are totally opposed to a fence though, cparian, I would really, *really* consult with a real estate attorney and/or try to find out what your legal obligations (if any) are in keeping children out.

As a side note- I grew up and have spent a lot of my life in a remote rural area. In my experience, you will often encounter people in rural areas that feel that they have access to any area they (or their animals or children) can get into, much more so than in urban areas. My biggest pet peeve is people that live in the country and therefore, feel that they don't need to keep their dogs penned or leashed. Some people take living in the country as an excuse to basically not keep anything caged and/or to access any area they please. I have seen this over and over and over again, whether it be with pet animals, livestock, hunting/fishing areas, boating areas, hiking areas, horseback riding areas, etc. A lot of people that move into rural areas do not respect property lines as much as in urban areas.

 

[Wolfwoman]

Quote:
Problem is, back then, people didn't LOOK for reasons to sue other people. Nowadays they do.

I'm not as nice as most of the people on here. Tell the kids (albeit nicely) that they aren't allowed on your property and to find somewhere else to play. THEN call the parents and reinforce it. Next, post No Trespassing signs, then if possible, put up a fence.

I like my privacy and my property. Not other people on it. There are reasons people buy LOTS of land. Having others on it, usually isn't one of them.

 

[herfrds]

I read through all the posts and comments.
I just gotta ask of the OP, what do you want?

After all it has been suggested a fence, but you want to keep the area natural.
Signs have also been suggested, but you don't want to put them up.

I hate telling you this, but unless you do one or both you will have more trouble then you can shake a stick at.
welsummerchicks gave you some great advice, if you don't want the trouble that is heading your way I would follow it.

Sorry if I am coming across as harsh, but I have dealt with tresspassers, people that acted liked they owned our land, the trash, the damage and much more. I have zero tolerance for them.
You got great advice, follow it.

 

[cparian]

I hear ya herfrds! Loud & clear. I'm not taking you has being harsh. I try to believe the best in people but as you'all have reminded me, some people just won't get it & will take this as me being a jerk.

I can see from some of the posts that different people have different opinions of what is right & wrong.

The area I'm in is not rural. These kids aren't from a property that even ajoins mine so there is no question about property lines & if they thinks its theres or mine. They are treating the place like a public park. The creek runs the entire back line of my property for about a mile, so a fence will be a large undertaking. The original owner had the entire place surrounded by barbed wire fence that is now either knocked down or has been cut. Is rerunning the barbed wire due dilligence or would it have to be more substantial to pass?

 

[WhiteMountainsRanch]

I've read all the posts and I second fencing also.


Barbed wire fences can be run at great lengths fairly cheaply... maybe you can get used materials off craigslist and see about fixing up what you got.


Keep us updated!

 

[sunflowerenvy]

i would put up a signs private property and No trespassing and i would put up a horse fence that is 10 ft long over the stream it has poles with two wires on it start the wire about 3ft above the stream line.

i see it all the time here. special during the hunting season.
maybe of one day you would like use that of land for livestock.
laura

 

[Sunny Side Up]

Cparian, you have every right to privacy on all of your own property if that's what you wish. And you also need to protect yourself from liability should anyone get hurt while on your property whether or not they have your permission to be there. There must be a way you can have your privacy & protection while still living in harmony with your neighbors.

I think it's rude to go on someone else's property without their permission. I guess the kids got used to playing there when no one lived there, but they & their parents need to know that it's under new ownership.

Perhaps you should contact your homeowner's insurance office to find out the limits of your liability and to get suggestions on options for fencing, posting notices, identifying the boundaries of the property, etc. Your local law enforcment department may have helpful information too. Are the edges of your property fairly straight & rectangular? Maybe you just need to tag the trees every few yards along the lines to indicate where your property begins/ends.

How well do you know the people on your street? There are 16 houses on my street, the yards are about 1.5 acres each. I created & maintain a Neighborhood Contact Sheet, knocking on every door and getting the families to write their names, phone numbers, & email addresses. Then I made 16 copies of the finished product & gave one to each family. This way we can contact each other if ever there is a need/concern. Maybe you can start something like that, and while you're there let folks know you'll be phoning them if their children wander over to your property. You can blame it on the insurance company & tell them you cannot afford to be liable. Tell them that "someday" you'll have them over for lunch & they can watch their children while they play in your creek.

I wish you sucess in resolving this issue...