How to prevent frostbite?

[suebgbr]

Nice one. The farm where my chickens are has cows so I will ask the farmer. Thank you x

 

[aart]

Quote: I believe MeepBeep keeps their flock in a building heated to about 40F......which, IMO, is the only sure fire way to avoid frostbite.

 

[romea]

aart: heating a coop above the point of freezing is not an option in most northern environments. it has also been said many times that once birds (and their plumage) are acclimatized to such balmy temperatures and in case of a power outage, you better don't mind moving your flock into the living room and serving them hot cocoa... ;-))

i have read through pages of various posts on how to deal with the cold here on BYC and the various opinions on whether a source of heat should be provided or not - and it all seems to boil down to keeping the environment as dry as possible. so humidity-control is obviously the key factor. (hence my question about the suggested balm: "jelly" made me think of added water but i have since researched "petroleum jelly" and now know that it is, in fact, water repellent [hydrophobic].)

with regards to the whole question of providing a heated environment for chickens, i would like to point out that a chicken is first & foremost a bird. last time i checked, birds have survived cold climates since the little dinosaurs grew feathers....

none of the doves, finches, chickadees or wild pheasants i see outside have the privilege of a cosy coop, yet they are surviving some of the coldest climates.
so & apart from keeping a coop ventilated to control he build-up of moisture, the other key factor is to obviously keep chicken breeds that are "cold-hardy" and can adapt well to the drop in temperatures.

i remember reading a comment in which someone jokingly mentioned she would love to tuck her birds in with her at night in her bed and it sure made me smile. however, we really have to be careful not to project our own frostbitten thoughts on our flock.

 

[aart]

aart: heating a coop above the point of freezing is not an option in most northern environments. it has also been said many times that once birds (and their plumage) are acclimatized to such balmy temperatures and in case of a power outage, you better don't mind moving your flock into the living room and serving them hot cocoa... ;-))

i have read through pages of various posts on how to deal with the cold here on BYC and the various opinions on whether a source of heat should be provided or not - and it all seems to boil down to keeping the environment as dry as possible. so humidity-control is obviously the key factor. (hence my question about the suggested balm: "jelly" made me think of added water but i have since researched "petroleum jelly" and now know that it is, in fact, water repellent [hydrophobic].)

with regards to the whole question of providing a heated environment for chickens, i would like to point out that a chicken is first & foremost a bird. last time i checked, birds have survived cold climates since the little dinosaurs grew feathers....

none of the doves, finches, chickadees or wild pheasants i see outside have the privilege of a cosy coop, yet they are surviving some of the coldest climates.
so & apart from keeping a coop ventilated to control he build-up of moisture, the other key factor is to obviously keep chicken breeds that are "cold-hardy" and can adapt well to the drop in temperatures.

i remember reading a comment in which someone jokingly mentioned she would love to tuck her birds in with her at night in her bed and it sure made me smile. however, we really have to be careful not to project our own frostbitten thoughts on our flock.

You're singin' to the choir with me.......but I was speaking of MeepBeep's situation, which I maybe should have let them done themselves. Tho I do believe that a heated building is the only real way to absolutely avoid frostbite.

I have read many, many anecdotes about PJ and Bag Balm and come to the conclusion that they might work but in many cases have not worked for a variety of reasons. The Bag Balm... I've read has a mentholate aspect that some feel might improve circulation and thus guard against the bite.<shrugs> Theoretically, it all sounds hopeful, but.......meh.

My cockerels unheated and un 'greased' comb will likely lose it's tips this winter.

 

[romea]

gotcha... ;-))
a few years ago, my male bengal managed to sneak out on a very cold winter night and - although he would have had access to our shed where we kept some very sturdy styrofoam boxes that were used for cooling medical supplies (which i used to collect during my times involved in TNR of feral cats) - got frostbite on one of his gorgeous rounded ears. after that, the tip of said ear looked ever so slightly curled. barely noticeable and kinda cute. i don't think it was a big deal for him as i never noticed him paying much attention to the injury.
so, assuming that a cat-ear is more sensitive, i am further guessing that chickens, too, will not suffer in case they do get their tips frostbitten. then again, i am no chicken and little do i know about their secret lives... *grin*

 

[MeepBeep]

I believe MeepBeep keeps their flock in a building heated to about 40F......which, IMO, is the only sure fire way to avoid frostbite.

Yep, by coop is heated been holding about 37° all year, thus far... The only 100% preventative to frostbite is to avoid exposure to freezing temperatures, this is a cold hard fact...

aart: heating a coop above the point of freezing is not an option in most northern environments.

I guess that is all relative, I'm considered 'northern' as far as winter weather goes in the US being on the Illinois/Wisconsin border, and I heat a 1200sq/ft coop all winter... All in all my propane bill is about $60 a month give or take, but with that the birds eat less, they lay eggs more consistently, I don't have other things like heated water buckets or what not, in the end most of the $60 is washed, making the cost nominal at best... And in the end for me spending $60/month and not having to worry one bit about frostbite is worth every penny and then some...

it has also been said many times that once birds (and their plumage) are acclimatized to such balmy temperatures and in case of a power outage, you better don't mind moving your flock into the living room and serving them hot cocoa... ;-))

Just because people repeat something over and over doesn't make it fact, and this is a perfect example of such... Sure there is some fact in it, but it's mostly exaggeration...

My heated coop at 35°-37° is not balmy, and thus my birds are actually pretty acclimated to the cold, but in the same breath I have 100% frostbite prevention, in fact I'll bet my coop is no warmer then many smaller coops with a high density of birds in them, seriously have you taken temps of small coops with lots of birds in it, I'l bet in many cases it's as warm if not warmer then my coop...

As for the every famous and often repeated 'OMG, what if there is a power outage' scare... Lets put this in a realistic context, and not the hyperbole based 'what if' end of the world context.. Power outages of any significant duration are extremely rare in my area, even more rare in the winter, in fact I don't even recall the last time the power went out for more then a few minutes... I know it hasn't happened in the last 15 years (for me personally) since I have never had to actually use my backup generator that is now going on 15 years old... Now sure it can happen, and that is why I have a generator on stand by, because if the power goes out not only does my coop lose power and heat so does my house! And if you live in an area where power outages are frequent, then obviously the risk is higher, but from experience most people that live in such areas know and are prepared with backup generators...

Also lets look at the way outside weather is, there are natural temperature ups and downs as well, it's not uncommon in say November in my area for the temps to be steady in the 30s and 40s and then all the sudden drop in a blink one day, realistically and honestly this is a near parallel to what might happen if the power went out temporarily, and since the birds were only 'acclimated' to the 30s/40s in both instances, it's really nearly an identical scenario if you are weighing in on the acclimation leg...

As for 'birds' can handle it, well lets be blunt, if they can handle the cold why worry or do anything to try and prevent frostbite in the first place? Doesn't the fact that some birds risk or get frostbite indicate that maybe those particular birds can't handle it? The reality is 'some' birds can handle handle the cold weather others can't, this is why many bird species migrate for the winter, not only to seek better food and open water but to avoid the risk of exposure...

 

[aart]

gotcha... ;-))
a few years ago, my male bengal managed to sneak out on a very cold winter night and - although he would have had access to our shed where we kept some very sturdy styrofoam boxes that were used for cooling medical supplies (which i used to collect during my times involved in TNR of feral cats) - got frostbite on one of his gorgeous rounded ears. after that, the tip of said ear looked ever so slightly curled. barely noticeable and kinda cute. i don't think it was a big deal for him as i never noticed him paying much attention to the injury.
so, assuming that a cat-ear is more sensitive, i am further guessing that chickens, too, will not suffer in case they do get their tips frostbitten. then again, i am no chicken and little do i know about their secret lives... *grin*

I don't think it causes much discomfort unless is gets infected, then it can be a holy mess and kill them if the infection becomes systemic.
Last winter my birds had some mild gray patches, some black spots on both hen and roo combs and some large(quarter sized) black patches on roos wattles....didn't seem to bother them and the even the worst healed up just fine, was lucky not to have any infections.

 

[romea]

...
Just because people repeat something over and over doesn't make it fact, and this is a perfect example of such...
...

i have come across this very sentence a few times now. was it you who keeps repeating this?

joking aside, my chickens & i live in new brunswick, canada, which is the province north of maine. while lasting power outages have become less of a problem (even here ;-)), it is common for temperatures to drop to -30 to -35 C (= -22 to -31 F) during cold spells. the lowest temps recorded went down below -47 C (-52 F) - so, as i said, heating a coop (continuously) is not an option and (most) 'folks' around here don’t do it.
they haven’t done it since they arrived here with their first chickens a few centuries ago and probably won’t be doing 'it' in the not too distant future either.
does this - repeated fact - make life for our chickens unbearable? i don’t know but the few that we have are still giving us enough eggs that we feed spares to our dogs (and we are not keeping the light on for them either). so, if this is an indication for happy chickens, i guess they are doing okay. then again, winter has just started.

with that being said, there is a point at which i will plug in a heater (infrared?) or a heat-lamp… not sure yet what makes most sense in a coop that is not insulated. admittedly i am navigating through my very first winter with chickens in tow, so i am researching what works in our area.

as for birds who migrate: ahem… yes, sure… but do they do this because they couldn’t handle the cold (resp. adapt to it)? if you look at the species that migrate, you will find that they do so because they have specialized food needs that are not available during winter. e.g.: insects, flowers, amphibians, fish etc... (the open ocean freezes at temps below -28 F and bays, which are where most birds fish, are already covered now.)
an animal/evolution does what is most energy efficient. migration causes major energy loss and bears great risks. if the food sources where available in the north all year round, developing more plumage would be more energy efficient than migrating.

sadly, the lack of food it is one of the truly tragic facts that has caused our northern bats (predominately the little brown myotis) to succumb to the fungus that is known as “white nose syndrome” (WNS). when the fungus causes... sorry: caused them to wake up prematurely during january or february, there are/were no insects to catch and no water to drink. if it would have been possible to feed them (like we feed our birds), they would have been able to handle the cold but instead 6-7 million bats have simply starved to death since the outbreak and are now extinct in most of the eastern states and provinces.

re: frostbite…

I don't think it causes much discomfort unless is gets infected, then it can be a holy mess and kill them if the infection becomes systemic.
Last winter my birds had some mild gray patches, some black spots on both hen and roo combs and some large(quarter sized) black patches on roos wattles....didn't seem to bother them and the even the worst healed up just fine, was lucky not to have any infections.

thank you. that’s a good point. i will need to research this further and see what said folks do around here to prevent infections.

 

[aart]

thank you. that’s a good point. i will need to research this further and see what said folks do around here to prevent infections.
I think leaving it alone is the best bet.....until it shows infection then you've got to get on it pronto.
I kept an eagle eye on my boys' big black wattles, they showed some slight swelling but never got infected.
One thing I'm doing to avoid it in the first place is to use horizontal nipple waterers instead of an open dish that wattles could be dipped into.

There's a lengthy, very detailed thread about a woman treating a bad infection in frostbit tissue on wattles and comb here somewhere.
ETA: 20 minutes of searching and skimming I found it-
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/742274/freezer-camp-in-our-minnesota-coop-frozen-wattles-on-roo

 

[mtchickengal]

Hi. So here's my 2 cents. I used bag balm on 13/14 birds. Temps went from being in the 40's to being -15 in less than 12 hours. About 2 weeks earlier temps went from low 60's to -22 & I didn't put anything on them. So......on the -22 weekend 2-3 birds got a very, very slight bit of frost bite. After the -15 cold snap....almost all of my birds have some patches on their combs...some of their tips. That sucks, as I have tried to be very proactive with them. So, how much does it bother them? Not sure. I get 5-7 eggs/day from 12 birds that lay. I let them range the yard most days, as long as it is above about 20 & not too windy. They chatter & behave pretty much the same as usual. I will indeed watch for infections, Aart. Thanks. They seem happy. My ba rooster seemed to enjoy me putting the bag balm on his comb, once he got over the shock of being picked up. Lol.

As far as heating the coop goes, I am trying to avoid it due to the fear of fire. However that being said, I would love to have the luxury of a spacious coop that I could keep around 35-37 for my birds. It got down to -16 in my coop with 14 birds in it. They are all fine. I would have slept so much better if I had meepbeep's heated coop! Well worth a few extra $! I actually got up & went out there to check on them! We all do what we feel is right for our birds. Nothing wrong with either way, just each of our own choices.

Bag balm.....not sure if it is really helpful or not. I did put up some insulation today & cut my vent holes differently. Wow! Should have heard them when they went in to roost. Several were doing the alarm "song".....or whatever people refer to it.

1 last thing. I personally value pretty much everyone's opinion on here. Once I read whatever info, I make up my mind how I'm gonna do whatever. I really appreciate the differences in how people take care of their birds. Thanks all for the info.