How to send your farmer to jail Update on Tester Amendment Post 239

[kstaven]

Quote:
For the most part I agree, but in this region I am seeing more informed people all the time searching for farm direct and willing to pay a realistic price to get it. On the other side of the equation I also see people moving from the city and then screaming about normal farm activities that go on around them.

What do they expect when moving to a rural AG area?

Doesn't help when the health departments get into the media and scare people to death about manure, animals, etc....

There in lies the problem. A realistic price is what the market will bear and not what the consumer wants to pay for it. After all the producer has a right (obligation) to make a living. NONE of us go to our employers and say "Hey boss, you can cut my salary because I can live on less or save less." If you want food raised a certain way, you pay for it regardless of price otherwise you are just another hypocrit saying one thing and doing another. If the profit margins are good and consistent, others will join in and lower the costs. Those that raise the food in an alternative way need to understand how to market, sell value and not try to compete w/commercial ag as we are VERY EFFICIENT. We in 2010 ag raise 160+ bu/acre field corn while organic is lucky if they hit 100 and average close to 50 bu/acre. So organic corn needs to be 4X higher to compete--that doesn't even get into the extra labor/costs (seed is higher, fertilizer is higher, etc.) organic has.

Thats what makes niche marketing so much fun!!!!! I agree that marketing skills are essential. You wear all the hats when producing for small select markets and develop relationships with the end user that don't exist with huge operations. It is a totally different world and form of agriculture operation.

 

[Dunkopf]

Where can you find more info about niche marketing?

 

[seedcorn]

There is a place for both (all) types if the consumer will pay for it. But as Katy said, it's a little disturbing (not sure if correct word, thought) when we in AG are portrayed as the "evil empire" (yes, by some on this board) when all we're trying to do is make a living, provide food for starving people through out the world at the cheapest way we know how. We deal with the resources that are available. Some have elitest attitudes as they've never known hunger. If they did, they would have a whole different attitude, not near so condescending.

Again, promote your business (life style) but please do it without painting commercial Ag as the evil empire.

 

[Dunkopf]

I think organic growing is great. However as someone has pointed out, the crop production per acre is much lower and the labor is much more intensive. Our farms produce a lot more than can economically be produced in an organic manner. Same thing with chickens and beef and eggs. Not everyone can afford 5 dollars for a gallon of milk or 10.00 a lb for hamburger or 6.00 a lb for chicken. Farmers markets and buying locally is great. If people want to do that, then they should go to farmers markets and find local farmers to buy from. Or go to those ultra expensive grocery stores with all the BMW's parked out front.

Meanwhile the majority of the population needs an economical source of food. Some places don't have a farmers market near by or a farmer they can buy from. 50% of families in America make less than 42k a year. After a car payment or car maintenance and insurance and rent and utilities there's not that much left for food. We just bought a total of 16 turkeys at Safeway. 268 lbs of turkey, total cost was 132.00. I raise turkeys and there's no way I could produce that much meat for 132.00. Like Seedcorn said, there is a bit of an elitist attitude amongst a lot of people as well as a lot of unrealistic expectations.

I don't see this bill as a way to keep small farmers down. I see it as a way to help keep the majority of our food chain safe for the majority of the population. I'm sure there's favoritism and unfair breaks for some sectors. It was written by humans after all.

 

[kstaven]

As much as yourself we are "in AG" also. You say don't call us in commercial AG the "evil empire" and yet many in what they refer to as commercial AG call the people who want to produce in a different manner and cater to a different market "elitists" and BMW driving _______ and such. Maybe the name calling and stereotyping needs to end. Just like yourself we work our butts off and take pride in producing the best we can for the masses who want it produced in a manner they demand. In all reality we are just as involved in AG as the larger scale commercial producer.

Dunkopf. At one point we saw the type of prices you quote at farmers markets but as things have swung here to more demand, competition and increased volumes produced that has brought those prices down dramatically. So as usual with any market, as market size increases, and prices drop because small producers get bigger and more numerous. If current trends continue you will see a further narrowing of the price differences that occur.

Again, promote your business (life style) but please do it without painting small scale niche market Ag as the elitist empire. Two sides to every coin

They co-exist to feed a nation.

 

[Katy]

Quote:
It always seems to me tho that those on "my side of the fence" are fine with letting people eat and have whatever food source they want where "the other side of the fence" think our whole food system should be scrapped and started over to suit them which is where the rest of us get the "elitist" attitude from them. More power to anyone who wants to mess with the niche marketing. For some of us that isn't something we want to deal with or may not even be realistic for us.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
It always seems to me tho that those on "my side of the fence" are fine with letting people eat and have whatever food source they want where "the other side of the fence" think our whole food system should be scrapped and started over to suit them which is where the rest of us get the "elitist" attitude from them. More power to anyone who wants to mess with the niche marketing. For some of us that isn't something we want to deal with or may not even be realistic for us.

OK one of those snob elitist will jump in here....

Indeed Katy, you are using less chem ferts than 40 years ago more importantly the pesticides and herbicides have been vastly reduced. I am happy the industry is moving in the right direction to more sustainable techniques.. However it was often some "greeny elitists" that pushed for the change.

I have no animosity or blame for the farmers participating in the "system". They are doing what they need to do to survive. Katy my hats of to your family for surviving as long as you have....!

However we have less and less private farms, which are getting larger and larger in size. Play the scenario out and one day we will have one giant corporate farm that everyone works minimum wage for.. I actually feel very sorry for folks like Katy, who believe in and participate in a system that keeps driving the farmers profits down creating the need to expand the size of the operation in order to maintain their margins, yet to do that more capitol needs to be outlay-ed to buy bigger equipment to work more land. It is a never ending viscous cycle that only gets the middleman rich, while sucking the lifeblood out of the farmer, and killing the consumer with the poison they market as food...

I will not start an argument about the real cost of cheap food and the practices used to create that food, Subsidies, and what truly Sustainable practices mean. I will say that our eating habits in this country are poor! Childhood obesity/diabetes is at epidemic levels, our lifespans are getting shorter despite our technology to fight cancer and disease. Why? Our diets is a major factor..

Now some say let people be let them eat what they want... I am here to contend that they eat poor food items because of the 100's of billions of dollars spent on advertising by companies such as Mc Donalds and so forth. The junk food epidemic is purely caused by the marketing efforts of the companies that produce those products. So IMO there is room for society to put restrictions on such companies, as San Fran did stating happy meals with toys must meet a nutritional standard in order to include a toy.

I come from a farm background, left the farm and know trying to come back to it... I sell eggs and lettuce to a small organic store.. Yes my eggs are expensive and so is my lettuce. Both are sustainable, organic and locally produced and sold...I practice niche marketing and boutique marketing practices.. IMO it is the only way to survive on a small scale, produce the products that you can sell at a premium. One needs to be able to differentiate your products from those commercially produced.. Every market is different.. One needs to secure your outlets prior to producing the crop.

I fully support a back to agriculture movement! More small privately owned farms producing and selling sustainable grown products at a local level.

Anyway I will shut up know and get off my soap box..

Be well
ON

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Actually I was talking more about places like Whole Foods. We went there one time just to check it out. I know that farmers markets aren't bad. They are a little higher than the big grocery stores. With the big grocery stores selling organic food it has forced the prices down some. The organic stuff is just a little more than the other fruits and veggies in the grocery store. Of course it never goes on sale either. I wish I could get our apple trees to grow something besides golf ball size green apples. As it is I get my apples at a regular grocery store. Wherever they are on sale. With 5 kids I can't afford to pay 1.00-1.50 per apple. So I eat what the masses eat and they taste just fine. I'll agree our meaties, turkeys and eggs taste much better than what you can get in the store and are probably healthier. My friend lives in a trailer court and they don't let hem have chickens even if he wanted them.

So I don't understand the argument. There is a market for both types of farming. I would like to figure out how to exploit a niche market. I would like for my property to make some money. Meanwhile the big ag farms with the lower priced affordable food keep the smaller people in business. If big ag gets pitted against small ag then small ag will lose. Small ag will have to lower prices and big ag will be able to raise prices. The consumer will suffer. People that currently shop at Whole Foods will make out nicely. People that can only afford Safeway will lose.

Wherever there is a market it should be filled. Whole Foods and Sprouts are occupying buildings that used to have an Albertsons in them. Shows there's absolutely a market. You only see these stores in affluent parts of town though.

 

[Katy]

Quote:
No reason to feel sorry for me...or look down your nose at how we farm, which is what that statement implies. That statement right there is a prime example of the elitist thinking of the organic movement. You are the only ones who are right and are sure you've got all the answers and there's no way we could be even a little bit right.

The poor eating habits of this country have nothing to do with the product that we farmers produce.....it's what the middleman does with it and the cheap and fast food that people demanded and have gotten from those middlemen.

 

[Dunkopf]

I agree about the poor eating habits of America in general. I don't know the solution. I know the government subsidies which are designed to keep the cost of food down, also make it cheap to make junk food. The commercial processors make all sorts of crap that taste good but is bad for you. Things are better than they used to be though. Hydrogenated fat is disappearing from a lot of our food. Corn syrup is also going away very slowly. They even renamed it for people that are asleep. I saw a commercial for corn sugar just the other day. In 20 years people will figure that one out too.

Right now organic food is a niche market that is expanding. I see a lot more growth in it and fully understand why it cost what it does.

Having 5 kids I understand why SF wants to pass that law about the toys in the meals. When my kids get a happy meal they want to play with the toy. The food is secondary. When I was a kid we didn't have happy meals. Mcdonalds was still a walk up and they had burgers, cheeseburgers, fish fillets , small fries and sodas, shakes. Burgers were 10 cents and we got to eat there about twice a year. Now you can get two McDoubles and a medium fries for 3.49. It's cheaper to eat at McDonalds than to take a healthy meal to work or for sure to buy a healthy meal.

You go to a regular restaurant and they give you servings that are big enough for 2 people. It cost you 10.00 so you don't want to waste it.

Personally I am a lot more worried about future health care cost caused by all the obesity in America. They say that diabetes alone will bankrupt the health care system. The new guys are talking about phasing out Medicare and letting old people pay for everything out of pocket or for health plans that will cost more than they could possibly afford.

I intend to try to get as healthy as I can. Hopefully I haven't caused permanent damage already.