How to send your farmer to jail Update on Tester Amendment Post 239

I am so disappointed in this thread. When I joined, I thought it would be an intelligent exchange of ideas. It seemed to have started that way. The articles and web sites that were shared were very informative, and made the person's point without being controversial. But between the super-defensive Big Ag lovers and those still living the Civil War (it's over, you know) I can't even read the comments for all the anger and criticisms. I've re-read threads when people are accused of saying things and calling names, but it's mostly the sensitive Big Ag people saying it - none of those on the side of alternative methods are calling names, merely making comments you don't care for. Thou dost protest too much, Big Ag. In the thirteen years since I became vegetarian and the 10 years I have had chickens I have read a lot of material. I am open to reading both sides. In fact, I WANT to know what's good about Big Ag, because I can't believe stuff like that can happen be allowed in our country, but I just can't find enough to disregard what I have read about the negatives. I am the food person in the family. I am trying to influence my relatives to think with their fork and their conscience. I don't allow my mom to purchase factory meat anymore. I don't want to give out false information. But it seems that here, as well as anywhere else that Big Ag has been questioned, they react with name calling and indignation and all this talk about feeding the world. I can't count how many times I've read about tons and tons of grain languishing because too much was grown - again. This is the influence of the gov't and Monsanto. 80% of grain grown today goes to feed farmed animals. What if people ate it instead? I read recently that, if practices continue like they are, that farmed animals will be eating as much grain as four million people. Kinda ironic when they aren't even supposed to be eating it, huh? Like I have said several times, and keeps being ignored, and O.N. has said it, we don't hate, feel sorry for, or pity the farmers that choose to live this way. Please read that again. Just because we disagree with your working practices does not mean we feel those other things. It is the companies that have ruined family farm after family farm, as well as people's health and the environment for years without feeling any responsibility - all in the name of money. You think Big Ag cares about you? If so, maybe I do feel sorry for you. As far as accusing others of not having any facts, Big Ag supporters have been a little shy of facts themselves. If Big Ag was really right, they and their supporters wouldn't invest so much energy trying to tell everyone else how wrong they are.

Well, I wish this could say this has been fun, but it has reenforced my impressions about Big Ag and their backers. I leave this thread to seek intelligent intercourse with less flammable participants.
 
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Let's try not to get this thread locked, please
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Highly doubtful that Conventional Ag and Organic Ag will EVER get along. That said, I would hazard a guess that most folks are somewhere in the middle when it comes to consumers. For example, we buy some organic/naturally grown foods regularly (milk, yogurt, some fruits/veggies, some meats), and other items bought are grown conventionally. The current economy and even our normal income dictates this. Some folks can afford all organic, others can't afford any, but many choose some of both.

Katy and seedcorn, do you feel you are paid a fair price for your work/product? I ask because one of our neighbor friends runs a mega-dairy, expanded in the last 5 or 6 years. They milk 1300 cows (confinement) and grow their own feeds. Between the new freestalls, parlor, equipment, ect AND getting only $12-14 per hundredweight for their milk in the past couple years, they are deeply in debt. Borrowing just to stay afloat. By contrast, some smaller farmers who sell some of their milk directly to consumers get from $3-7 per gallon. I would say the latter farmers are getting their fair share of the dollar. And I am happy to pay it to them directly.

IMO, organic feedlots are not truly organic. Industrial-sized organic misses the forest for the trees.
 
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I am confused by your statement? More paperwork being filed isnt going to stop salmonella outbreaks. Or meat riddled with tape worms. Are you saying small producers like BYCer should be stopped or regulated to death? The producers have to be held responsible big or small but more paper work isnt the answer.
 
Highly doubtful that Conventional Ag and Organic Ag will EVER get along

Only because organic would force their thoughts/ways on us. Health laws, laws on manure management, laws on animal husbandry, etc are for all that are in that industry. Vegetarians are another subject as they would not allow ANYONE to eat meat.

Ag income is never a constant concept. Depending on environment, government sanctions, exports, imports, inputs; income goes from great to losing net worth. Ag workers are now getting paid like a factory worker. We used to make less.

Ask a ag worker ANYTHING, and they will explain the why's, how's, etc. Try to TELL us how do it when you are not involved in industry, some will politely listen with deaf ear and some will get defensive. Kind of like, if I showed up at your door and tried to tell you how to live your life.​
 
I don't want to give out false information

OK, then stop doing it.

we don't hate, feel sorry for, or pity the farmers

, then
maybe I do feel sorry for you

Which is it?

I can't count how many times I've read about tons and tons of grain languishing because too much was grown

Really, tons and tons of grain rotting away? Would you enlighten me where it is at?

80% of grain grown today goes to feed farmed animals

News to me.

U.S. usage breakdown
The breakdown of usage of the 12.1 billion bushel 2008 U.S. corn crop was as follows, according to the World Agricultural Supply and Demand Estimates Report by the USDA.[49]

5.25 billion bu. - Livestock feed
3.65 billion bu. - Ethanol production
1.85 billion bu. - Exports
943 million bu. - Production of Starch, Corn Oil, Sweeteners (HFCS,etc.)
327 million bu. - Human consumption - grits, corn flower, corn meal, beverage alcohol

I leave this thread to seek intelligent intercourse with less flammable participants.

OK, glad you don't believe in insults.......
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Well then please enlighten us with some of your vast knowledge....

What are the top 10 crops and what percentage of acres are used for those crops today?

How does that compare to the same crops 30 years ago?

Do we have more genetic diversity in our seedstock today than 30 years ago?

and I don't know why you think we only think of quantity and not the quality of the food we grow.

Think salmonella..

This type of thread whether it's conventional farming vs. organic or vegetarian vs meat eating always seem to have the same theme. The organic/vegetarian camp seem to think they are right and theirs is the only way to do things while we meat eater/conventional farmers say there's a place for both.

I have no idea what vegetarian has to do with this...
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To me it is simply if one sees nothing wrong with the status que of agricultural practices and trends in this country, they are offended by anyone proposing alternatives.
I guess I am sorry if my enthusiasm for a growing grass roots movement to improve the quality of our food offends you..
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Ultimately the consumers taste buds will decide what they want.. I just do not appreciate being called an elitist.. I work hard to produce the things I do without the billion dollar marketing power and legions of Lawyers of the status quo of large scale corporate agriculture players such as Kraft, Tyson, AMD, Monsanto, Mc donalds and so forth... I personally feel I can offer a better product to the consumer without them.
I am fine with the fact that opinions may differ!!!!!!!
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ON​

Been away from the computer all day since my kids and grandkids were here for our Thanksgiving dinner. I really don't know where to start in response to you....it's like talking to a brick wall.

If you want to know the variety of crops the American farmer grows check out the local grocery store or farmer's market.....that's what we grow.......it's a far cry from just corn and soybeans.

I'll see if I can come up with the percentage for the different crops....may take me awhile but I'm sure the ag department has those statistics.

Salmonella? Yes, it can happen, but to my knowledge I don't think any crop or animal that I've ever produced has given it to anyone. Not keeping food stored properly can also cause a person to become ill......I supposed that's the farmer's fault too when someone lets their leftovers set out too long.

My point on the vegetarian comment was obviously lost on you.

I've said time and time again that I don't have a problem with people wanting to grow more of their own food....what I have a problem with is the continued assault on American agriculture based often on half truths and untruths.

The thought tho that organic farmer's markets will be able to feed this nation is unrealistic.​
 
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Hey Katy,
Happy Turkey day...! I hope you enjoyed your family..
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You know I have never attack you and your farm personally... From what I understand on the many topics you have posted on.. Your families survival while remaining divers is something to celebrate! Not criticise intentionally!!!!... I am sorry if your read my disdain for the folks that are driving the industry as a disdain for what your family does... I have none for you~

Yes I agree you are like talking to a brick wall for me too... Fact is we are both stubborn....Whats new hey?
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I looked the stats up briefly and as far as acres planted it is corn and beans at something like 750 million each, then hay and wheat at 500 million each... Cotton and rice next at real small numbers... I assume all other crops are way less than the 5 million acre mark.. I really do not need computer statistics, just driven down the road in the heart of dairy land can tell me what has changed in the last 30 years..

I am done with the point to point argument... To much anger getting stirred up here..

Just for the record we can not afford to buy organic stuff at the store, only what we grow or buy direct from the source... We do put a lot of time and energy into buying local and direct, organic or not... Simple fresh unprocessed food for wholesome eating..
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Seedcorn, I am not going to participate...
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I could counter everything you said right back at you... Whats the point? We do not see eye to eye... Only thing I will say is if people are selling over $5K of goods and do not have a paper trail for their organic claims they should be turned in!!!!!!!!!
That is illegal.... and is by no means the status quo...
(By the way I am not a fan of industrial organics my self...Though I feel their are bigger fish to fry in the ocean of industrial ag.)

Know I will really make ya sick..
Lots of love and peace to you!
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ON
 
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Know I will really make ya sick..

You couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm saddened that people have no clue how the food chain works. Do the math on how much organic labeled products are sold that can be linked to organic corn. There isn't even a 1/3 enuf corn raised to address the amount that is sold under this label. What is sad is that I know of bins of organic corn in this area that is being held because they can't get a premium from the organic feeders because they are using regular corn. But yet, the organic people never do the math. Organic pork/chicken use about 4 pounds of corn for every pound of meat. So where are they getting their corn? from local elevators that are branded organic.

Buying direct from farmers is a different angle than organic, one I can wholy support. Buy from people that produce the products the way you want. I've been consistent that the CONSUMER controls his own destiny. Ag will provide what the consumer will pay for.​
 
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