How to serve calcium and grit?

[MeepBeep]

I don't understand why everyone feels the need to put grit or oyster shell in a container???

Simple less waste and confirmation that it's always available and readily accessible... Same reason I use a feed feeder vs just tossing their feed on the ground every day...

 

[rebrascora]

But oyster shell and grit don't degrade like feed so there is no waste as such. It lies there in the run until the chickens scratch it up and eat it.

 

[MeepBeep]

I have to say that I struggle with the notion that oyster shell is "soluble and soft".....it very much depends on the medium that it is being dissolved in....clearly sea water doesn't dissolve it!

Yes,the medium is important so why bring sea water into the equation when we are talking about the digestive tract of a chicken? Apples to Oranges...

Oyster Shell aka calcium carbonate has a PH of about 9.9
Seawater has an PH of 7.5 to 8.4
Chicken crop has a PH of 5.5
Chicken gizzard has a PH of 2.5 - 3.5

Now if we go back to science class on the PH scale...

Calcium carbonate at 9.9 is a very strong base
Seawater at 7.5 - 8.4 is a mild base

Chicken crop at 5.5 is a mild acid
Chicken gizzard at 2.5 -3.5 is a medium acid

Thus yes sea shells dissolve very slowly in sea water as they are both alkaline and thus a slow solubility reaction, but that is not the case inside a chicken who's digestive tract is very different... The chickens gizzard is literally about 100,000 times more acidic than sea water or about 10 million more times acidic than the oyster shell! That makes for a good reaction...

To put this in real world perspective, common household white vinegar has a PH of about 2.5 very similar to the chickens gizzard, so fill a cup up with vinegar and drop in a few chunks of oyster shell to simulate come grit being eaten and then toss in some granite and see how that oyster shell last in a simulated gizzard like environment... You can literally see the oyster shell being dissolved from the get go, and if you replenish the vinegar to hold a steady PH the oyster shell will be gone within hours, while the granite will last indefinitely... Consider that unlike the cup of vinegar that the chickens body will strive to maintain and keep the PH of the gizzard steady so the reaction won't slow down like it does in a cup of vinegar as they two neutralize each other, this is why I suggested replenishing the vinegar in the experiment to simulate the chickens body replenishing the acids in the gizzard... And last but not least consider the size grit needs to be to get stuck in the gizzard and used for mechanical grinding vs being passed, in this case about 1/4" to 3/8" for standard adult chickens... The crushed oyster shell I get isn't that large of chunks to start with, but even if it was how long would it take to dissolve to a smaller size that is passed?

Now back to granite, since it's composed mostly of silicates it's not soluble in water thus the reason it's deemed 'insoluble' on the other hand oyster shell aka calcium carbonate will dissolve in water especially low PH (acidic) water readily thus the reason it's deemed 'soluble'...

 

[MeepBeep]

But oyster shell and grit don't degrade like feed so there is no waste as such. It lies there in the run until the chickens scratch it up and eat it.  

Oyster shell does in fact degrade an dissolve, so there is waste, calcium carbonate (limestone) is added to soil all the time to lower it's acidity for planting it's a water soluble mineral... Plus there is waste from any that is washed away or removed from the area the chickens are, and as I said in a feeder I'm able to visually confirm that it's readily available and easily accessible at any given time, I never have to wonder if said chicken was able to get enough oyster shell or grit from scratching...

 

[Intheswamp]

Well, I guess different folks do things different ways. With the grit and shell in a container the level available and the amount consumed could easily be monitored. Tossing the same on the ground regularly insures there is some there but will most likely require more of it to "be sure" that it's there for the chickens, probably more so with the shell since grit can be found in many natural environments. I guess it's what people are comfortable with. If everybody kept chickens the same way, well, we'd most likely be prisoners of the industrial poultry companies...Tyson, Cook, Conagra, Pilgrims, etc.,,..

Having said that, granite and oyster shell are indeed two different minerals with two different uses in regards to poultry. But, granite does hold nutritional value once ground to powder...plants and use it, I don't know if the chickens can or not...seems that they might could, they're mini-rock-eating dinosaurs, you know!

Best wishes,
Ed

 

[sbonsai]

Thanks for all the replies, some really great info here. I did start by just sprinkling it on the ground, but as a couple of people said, I had no idea how much they were getting or really how much was available, so I couldn't decide if I was putting out too much or too little. Maybe once it's in a container for a while and I get an idea of how much they need, I could go back to sprinkling on the ground.

I'm going to do some research and look at some of the materials I have available for some of these ideas, but I also like the idea of bird cage accessories that would attach to the hardware cloth. Thanks!

 

[MeepBeep]

But, granite does hold nutritional value once ground to powder...plants and use it, I don't know if the chickens can or not...seems that they might could, they're mini-rock-eating dinosaurs, you know!  

Granite is a very, very, very slow release potassium fertilizer with a few other very, very, very slow release trace minerals... Beneficial bacteria in the ground is what slowly breaks the granite down to something the plant can absorb through the roots... The chickens might get a very minute amount of trace minerals from it but likely nothing realistically measurable in the end...

 

[Intheswamp]

Figuring the low levels of trace elements and potassium will always be present in the chickens due to continuous grinding in the gizzard I can see where over the lifetime of a chicken their bodies may use these minerals for better health. But, I would think that chickens that are provided grit either from a bag or from the earth get these trace elements and no need for us to worry about them...

 

[Folly's place]

I have oyster shell in a standard metal round feeder in a corner of my coop. Nothing to make, never tips over, and plenty available. I have used a small hog or rabbit feeder with a solid bottom, but it was harder to fill because attached to a wall. Grit I pour on the raised edge of my brooder coop for the young birds, and then don't worry about it because everyone free ranges and finds plenty on the ground. Otherwise, it would also be there in a dish. They are totally separate, used by the birds for different purposes. Mary

 

[MeepBeep]

Figuring the low levels of trace elements and potassium will always be present in the chickens due to continuous grinding in the gizzard I can see where over the lifetime of a chicken their bodies may use these minerals for better health.

That assumes the chicken's body has the ability to chemically break the trace elements out of the granite that is is primarily silica based, into something they can digest, and to my knowledge most animals digestive tracts can't do this... The mechanical grinding does not do this either it takes a chemical reaction to unbind the trace elements, this is generally done on the microbial level in the ground or in specialized organisms... I'm not saying a chicken can't get anything out of it, they very well might be able to garnish something but it's sill going to be minute in the end, chances are a mouth full of dirt will provide more trace minerals then a month or even year of insoluble grit will...