Huge air cells for air-cell-detached eggs, Tiny ones for normal eggs.

[PaulX]

Hello,

11 days ago, I received 12 hatching eggs by post, 9 of the eggs arrived with detached, floating air cells, only 3 were in good condition. I let them rest for 1/2 day, not more considering their air cells looked large enough already and we have a very warm climate, before setting them in the incubator. I left them unturned for a further 36 hours before putting them in the automatic turner.

So far they've been in for 10 1/2 days, 4 of the 9 air-cell-detached eggs have quit, leaving 5 with detached air cells, and 3 good eggs.

The air cells in the 3 good eggs are tiny considering they're day 11, but for the 5 floating-air-cell eggs, the 'air cells' look huge. By 'air cells' for these 5 eggs here, I mean the part that doesn't look like they contain any 'egg liquid' anymore, but within these huge 'air cells', there is a small floating bubble in each.

The problem is, now I'm not sure how to adjust my humidity. I'd been adding as much water as I can for the first 7 days, having read that low humidity in the early stage would inhibit calcium transfer from the shell to the bones, but anyway that is the past now. Suffice to say, the 3 good eggs now need lower humidity, while on the other hand, the other 5 look like they need as much humidity as they can get. (yes I said the actual 'bubbles' are not large, but the space available to the embryo is already much too small for their stage due to the detached egg membrane.)

There is no option of getting a second incubator now. I only have one. I can only use one humidity regime.

Should I prioritize getting the correct air cell size for the 3 good eggs, leaving the 5 detached ones to their fate, or should I try to strike a balance between the two somehow? Or maybe should I even prioritize the detached ones since there're 5 of them vs 3 good eggs?

Does anyone here have experience in this kind of situation?

ps. they're duck eggs, btw, but this issue is about hatching in general so I thought I should ask here.

 

[Kkrista123]

Hello and great questions! I have incubated and hatched but I've also had some mess ups but I'll offer as much help as I can from what I've learned! Detached air cell eggs usually end up with a larger air sack that is more of a saddle shape than the typical round shape. They also usually tend to give up somewhere around or before halfway through incubation. Also some drown trying to hatch because they can't find the air sack. With this being said, If I were you I would focus on the 3 healthy eggs and just hope for the best with the 5 others. Luckily humidity is more important overall the whole incubation and not so much as important on the day to day. That also means maybe the 5 will make it..? If there's a will, there's a way! Just my opinion though, I hope someone else chimes in!

 

[chickens really]

@WVduckchick she possibly can help you..

 

[WVduckchick]

Tough call, since the "majority" is the worst of the two groups.

Are you incubating upright or laying down? And how often are the eggs being turned?

I'm curious, do the air cells free-float all around the egg, or just part of the fat end?
I agree with Krista though, the 5 with floating cells will more likely quit before they hatch, but anything is possible, so we can't give up on them. I'm not one who has ever hatched with eggs upright in cartons, but many swear by it for ones with air cell issues. It is possible that they may re-attach before hatch time comes too, since they are still early, once the duckling takes up more space inside, it could help stabilize the air cell.

You may consider some ways to help with the varying humidity needs of each set of eggs, like adding tape to one set of eggs, to block pores (that's what they do with emu eggs) but I forget what "kind" of tape. Or rubbing the bloom off of the eggs that need to gain air cell size. Removing the bloom opens the pores, allowing more moisture evaporation. Depends on which way you'd rather go about it.

P.S. I would bet that the ones with larger floating cells were "older" eggs when they were sent to you.

 

[PaulX]

Are you incubating upright or laying down? And how often are the eggs being turned?

I'm curious, do the air cells free-float all around the egg, or just part of the fat end?

Hello.

They're currently being turned at 45 degrees angle in two directions (back and forth). They're turned every 2 hours.

The air cells don't free-float 'completely', but for the 4 that already quit, they could float all along one side to almost the pointy end. As for the 5 that still lives, I haven't had the courage to try tilting them, but I remember from when they arrived that at least 6 eggs had air cell that could float very deep on one side (the 4 dead ones are probably among these 6).

I intended to stop turning after 14 days, having read some papers about chick eggs that say turning beyond 12 days into incubation doesn't improve hatchability. I intended to leave them upright in egg carton after 14 days, to prevent the 'air cell' from becoming too oddly-shaped from turning. And yes I'm considering hatching them in egg carton, but will decide based on the air cell shape of each egg at lockdown.

Adding tape to the 5 eggs sound like a good idea, I'll try to look that up.
Rubbing the bloom off... I don't think I'll have the stomach to do that, that'd increase bacteria contamination chance, no?

Still, I'm still at a lost as to why there would be bubbles in the detached air cells. I mean, if the 'cells' contain no egg 'liquid', then there shouldn't be any bubble, no? That there are bubbles should mean there's actually some sort of liquid there, but what?

Anyway thanks for your inputs, I was already leaning towards that way too, to prioritize the good eggs and hope all of them hatch out healthy chicks.

 

[WVduckchick]

Adding tape to the 5 eggs sound like a good idea, I'll try to look that up.
Rubbing the bloom off... I don't think I'll have the stomach to do that, that'd increase bacteria contamination chance, no?

It could increase the contamination possibilities, I would probably avoid it if other eggs were dirty, poopy, etc. But I can tell you that I now have 10 call duck eggs incubating (due in 5 days) and 2 of my air cells are super small. I've rubbed them twice (2nd time being this morning) with a warm barely-damp sponge. It helped the first time, so I'll be doing it for a couple more days, 2-3 times a day.

Still, I'm still at a lost as to why there would be bubbles in the detached air cells. I mean, if the 'cells' contain no egg 'liquid', then there shouldn't be any bubble, no? That there are bubbles should mean there's actually some sort of liquid there, but what?

I forgot the bubbles part of the first post. Do you mean like the air cell is in multiple pieces? Like it separated? I've had that happen a couple times. Those don't normally survive, but again, anything is possible. That's some major shaking by the postal service to cause an air cell to separate. Think of a water balloon. The air bubble from tying off the balloon is usually one bubble. But if you shake it enough, you can make multiple bubbles. Sometimes they mesh back together, sometimes they don't.


As far as turning.... what I found most helpful was to carefully tilt the egg and see how much it moves. If you can turn the egg so that the deepest area of movement is perpendicular to your tilt, they seem to have a better chance of reattaching. Meaning if your tilt continues to cause the air cell to move, its chances of reattaching are less than if you tilt against the axis. I hope that makes some sort of sense. lol

As far as stopping turning.... My belief is that once the CAM (chorioallantoic membrane - blood vessel network) has fully enveloped everything inside, or as much as it is going to, then its safe to stop turning. I didn't turn my eggs today, even though they aren't due until Friday/Saturday.

 

[PaulX]

I forgot the bubbles part of the first post. Do you mean like the air cell is in multiple pieces?

If you can turn the egg so that the deepest area of movement is perpendicular to your tilt, they seem to have a better chance of reattaching.

As far as stopping turning.... My belief is that once the CAM (chorioallantoic membrane - blood vessel network) has fully enveloped everything inside, or as much as it is going to, then its safe to stop turning. I didn't turn my eggs today, even though they aren't due until Friday/Saturday.

Sorry for the ambiguity, I was writing in plural for multiple eggs. What I meant was there was one bubble for each egg.

Turning - I've been doing just as you said.

I just looked up here
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...97-0185(20000501)259:1<25::AID-AR3>3.0.CO;2-Y
It seems the CAM would fully cover the inner egg shell membrane by day 12 for chick eggs, coinciding with what I read about when you can stop turning.
For duck eggs it says day 16 (not sure if it means 16 days completed or start of day 16).
So day 16 it is then! 4 more days to go!

 

[iambebabeba]

Sorry for the ambiguity, I was writing in plural for multiple eggs. What I meant was there was one bubble for each egg.

Turning - I've been doing just as you said.

I just looked up here
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/(SICI)1097-0185(20000501)259:1<25::AID-AR3>3.0.CO;2-Y
It seems the CAM would fully cover the inner egg shell membrane by day 12 for chick eggs, coinciding with what I read about when you can stop turning.
For duck eggs it says day 16 (not sure if it means 16 days completed or start of day 16).
So day 16 it is then! 4 more days to go!

How did that hatch go? How many from the detached aircells survived. I have some goose eggs I ordered from Ari Kratz but every single one has a detached air cell (they were packaged perfectly) I am wonder what the chances are of getting at least 1 to hatch. I’m on day 4 so to early to see if any are good. I’m gonna wait until day 8 to candle again

 

[PaulX]

How did that hatch go? How many from the detached aircells survived. I have some goose eggs I ordered from Ari Kratz but every single one has a detached air cell (they were packaged perfectly) I am wonder what the chances are of getting at least 1 to hatch. I’m on day 4 so to early to see if any are good. I’m gonna wait until day 8 to candle again

]

Out of 9 detached and 3 attached, 3 of the detached and 2 of the attached hatched.
3/9 for detached, 5 were goners by day 14 or so, 1 died because it couldn't complete internal pip.
2/3 for attached.

 

[iambebabeba]

]

Out of 9 detached and 3 attached, 3 of the detached and 2 of the attached hatched.
3/9 for detached, 5 were goners by day 14 or so, 1 died because it couldn't complete internal pip.
2/3 for attached.

Oh thank you for the update. I ordered 6 goose eggs . All have detached aircells. They are in day 15 now and 3 are developing . 3 look like they never started or started but quit after a few days. I like will update again if any hatch.