hundreds of tiny air bubbles?

[sheeshshe]

I've had 2 eggs so far, that have hundreds of tiny air bubbles clustered together inside the egg. Is this a ruptured air cell? and whatever it is, WHY is this happening? what causes it?

 

[chooks4life]

Are they outside the yolk area and move freely under the shell? Or are they particular to one area? If you open the egg where are they?

My hens were starved by one carer and when I got them back egg quality was poor, and the shells looked quite thin when candled, with many blotchy weak points. Some of them admitted oxygen or had loose bubbles in them (from outside the egg, I would guess, but I am not sure the air pocket didn't just leak). They seemed to stay in the egg and the air pocket seemed to retain its normal size, but the bubbles moved freely under the shell. There were not hundreds though. If I had to take a stab in the dark I'd say it's due to shell quality or lack thereof, which is probably due to diet or illness.

Best wishes.

 

[sheeshshe]

thank you so much. yes, they form an area about as large as half a yolk perhaps? and when I move the egg around, the cluster of bubbles moves to wherever the top of the egg is when I'm turning it. they don't stay in one spot. so, if there are weak spots in the egg, it would bring oxygen into the egg? this is one of my silkies. so, a bantam egg if that helps.

she doesn't act ill, but could she have an illness I don't know about? one of the 3 month olds in the group had cocci that I treated last week. I put them all on corid to be safe. Could this be caused by being on corid, you think? or maybe she was struggling with coccidiosis as well and I didn't know it?

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Mine weren't bantam, though most of them had some banty genes somewhere in there makeup, so I don't think it's a breed specific issue since it was a one-off and correlated with lack of health.

The egg membrane is responsible for gases exchange, so if it's weakened anywhere the egg could lose moisture at an abnormal rate and also take in oxygen at an abnormal rate, so I think this is a pretty good bet as to what's happened.
Quote: It's possible she has an illness you don't know of but it's also possible the Corid did it. Supposedly, from what little I've heard of it, it acts as a thiamine blocker in cocci, and doesn't affect the chicken, but I'd take that claim with a pinch of salt. Practically no pharmaceutical product has no side effect. So I would consider the Corid a potential cause.

Personally I use raw garlic from hatching onwards to combat coccidiosis, and have never seen a single bird with symptoms, so I assume it works. I've brought in birds from many places, and must have a good assortment of strains of cocci, but have never lost a single one to it nor seen any symptoms. I don't vaccinate nor use artificial medications. Old farming info records that raw garlic was used to treat coccidiosis even at an advanced stage in young birds. But it's an added expense and effort so many aren't able to use that. But, if you have losses to cocci, it may be worth trying.

Best wishes.

 

[sheeshshe]

Mine weren't bantam, though most of them had some banty genes somewhere in there makeup, so I don't think it's a breed specific issue since it was a one-off and correlated with lack of health.

The egg membrane is responsible for gases exchange, so if it's weakened anywhere the egg could lose moisture at an abnormal rate and also take in oxygen at an abnormal rate, so I think this is a pretty good bet as to what's happened.
It's possible she has an illness you don't know of but it's also possible the Corid did it. Supposedly, from what little I've heard of it, it acts as a thiamine blocker in cocci, and doesn't affect the chicken, but I'd take that claim with a pinch of salt. Practically no pharmaceutical product has no side effect. So I would consider the Corid a potential cause.

Personally I use raw garlic from hatching onwards to combat coccidiosis, and have never seen a single bird with symptoms, so I assume it works. I've brought in birds from many places, and must have a good assortment of strains of cocci, but have never lost a single one to it nor seen any symptoms. I don't vaccinate nor use artificial medications. Old farming info records that raw garlic was used to treat coccidiosis even at an advanced stage in young birds. But it's an added expense and effort so many aren't able to use that. But, if you have losses to cocci, it may be worth trying.

Best wishes.

I am one who normally treats naturally. I treated a chicken with oil of oregano diluted before once. but, I hadn't heard of anything besides corid for cocci, so I didn't know. How much garlic do you give, and how often? How much for a preventative, and how much as a treatment if there is a flare up? this would be amazing info to have.

I'm putting bets on the corid on this one too. they told me it would be fine, but my instincts told me otherwise...

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: From the first feed and thereafter I give them raw freshly minced garlic mixed in with their feed, and let them have as much as they want. I've yet to have a bird that's eaten enough to get sulfur poisoning, which is what I guess would be the reason behind some folks thinking the Allium family is toxic to poultry. You'd have to force feed them for that to work, and not allow them anything else, for a long period.

The general adult dosage for maintenance is one clove per bird per day. I've never had any symptoms of coccidiosis so can't tell you how much to give for a flare up; but sometimes cocci has atypical symptoms or even nothing much except general debility, and if I have any bird with any issues of disease I generally offer more garlic as well as other herbs and whatever I think is specific for their symptoms. As it often goes, a fast followed by a laxative (i.e. cold pressed olive oil) and then followed by treatment seems to help many different diseases.

I think you can get by on using dried granulated garlic for a good while and not feed them raw garlic daily but because of one of the most powerful natural antibiotic properties of garlic being prone to dissipate within anywhere between an hour and a few days, I tend to give them fresh raw garlic daily so they're 'topped up' against infection and disease. The Allicin is formed by the interaction of enzymes released when the raw garlic is crushed or cut and this is one of the chief properties out of 34+ that garlic possesses, not counting the sulfur which builds up to a level over time that poisons both internal and external parasites and viruses, while helping the bird heal faster and in general be healthier.

If your birds had an advanced case of cocci, a fast followed by a good helping of raw garlic would help, and perhaps a laxative would also help to shift the overburden of bacteria. The diet after that until recovery should always have raw garlic available. That's about all the info I have on advanced coccidiosis being treated with garlic. Since you're using oregano I'd guess your birds would already be pretty clean internally. A good book to get for natural remedies, which I've used to save the lives of many animals of many species, is "The Complete Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable" by Juliette de Bairacli Levy. It's being sold online in a few places for as little as $8.

All the best.

 

[sheeshshe]

From the first feed and thereafter I give them raw freshly minced garlic mixed in with their feed, and let them have as much as they want. I've yet to have a bird that's eaten enough to get sulfur poisoning, which is what I guess would be the reason behind some folks thinking the Allium family is toxic to poultry. You'd have to force feed them for that to work, and not allow them anything else, for a long period.

The general adult dosage for maintenance is one clove per bird per day. I've never had any symptoms of coccidiosis so can't tell you how much to give for a flare up; but sometimes cocci has atypical symptoms or even nothing much except general debility, and if I have any bird with any issues of disease I generally offer more garlic as well as other herbs and whatever I think is specific for their symptoms. As it often goes, a fast followed by a laxative (i.e. cold pressed olive oil) and then followed by treatment seems to help many different diseases.

I think you can get by on using dried granulated garlic for a good while and not feed them raw garlic daily but because of one of the most powerful natural antibiotic properties of garlic being prone to dissipate within anywhere between an hour and a few days, I tend to give them fresh raw garlic daily so they're 'topped up' against infection and disease. The Allicin is formed by the interaction of enzymes released when the raw garlic is crushed or cut and this is one of the chief properties out of 34+ that garlic possesses, not counting the sulfur which builds up to a level over time that poisons both internal and external parasites and viruses, while helping the bird heal faster and in general be healthier.

If your birds had an advanced case of cocci, a fast followed by a good helping of raw garlic would help, and perhaps a laxative would also help to shift the overburden of bacteria. The diet after that until recovery should always have raw garlic available. That's about all the info I have on advanced coccidiosis being treated with garlic. Since you're using oregano I'd guess your birds would already be pretty clean internally. A good book to get for natural remedies, which I've used to save the lives of many animals of many species, is "The Complete Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable" by Juliette de Bairacli Levy. It's being sold online in a few places for as little as $8.

All the best.

No WAY! I didn't know there was a book for this stuff. that is super cool. I need to get it.

I only use oregano when there is something that needs to be treated, it works lovely though! I've given garlic to my parrots to help with a crop yeast in one of them when I first got her, but I didn't think of using it on the chickens. So, Here is a question for you. I have a silkie hen who can't put any pressure on her foot. She was in there with the one who had cocci, but I had taken her out a few days before I found out about the coccidiosis. could she have an atypical presentation of cocci? I doubt it, but I wonder...

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: Well, I haven't heard of cocci affecting the foot, but then again I seem to be one of the only people on this forum who have heard of bumblefoot affecting the bones rather than the pad of flesh on the sole of the foot, so I wouldn't rule anything out. Speaking of bumblefoot though, are you sure it isn't that? Is there any swelling or heat in the foot or toes or leg? Any marks?

Chickens get bitten by snakes and spiders probably more than most if not all other poultry due to their aggressive dietary proclivities. I once had to kill a lovely redbelly black snake because my entire flock, 50+ birds, were escorting it at point blank range throughout the yard, just like they were hypnotized. They had their faces right up to it, almost touching it, turkeys and chickens and all. They'd eat little snakes but this one was too big and they didn't know what to do with it so they just harassed it until it began lunging at them. I couldn't get them to leave it alone and couldn't catch it.
Quote: I've found it very helpful. There are a lot of good herbal books and plenty of not so good ones, where someone writes incorrect information for whatever reason. Levy was incorrect on a few points, which people usually use as reasons to dismiss her whole body of work (she has books for cats and dogs and more info as well). She mentions dusting with tobacco powder as a mite or lice solution, and people immediately get up in arms about that, even though in her day the tobacco had no added chemicals, and was a common plant used to rid animals of pests; it was even eaten by horses, goats, etc and people for a natural vermifuge/antiparasite agent; back in her day it was cheap or free since it grew wild.

She also mentions asbestos mats, thinking they would be safe because they're natural, which is a flaw in her thinking which didn't extend to her studies of herbs, because she knew some weren't safe even though they were natural; she didn't give dosage info on some herbs she considered to carry risks in excess usage so as to protect people who are new to herbs.

Her book was the only one I've found that specifically detailed how to treat parvo naturally, which I used to save a little feral pup we caught who was almost dead from it, and also blue pigeon lice, which nearly killed my cat. Her info on kelp and garlic has stood my flock in great stead, and really I haven't found any other two items more important to my flocks' health. I doubted how powerful two seemingly simple natural things could be, and so I tested with and without them in the diet, extensively, so the very clear conclusion for me is that they are necessities for full health.

In general if you want to understand how vitamins and minerals work in the body, and other basic but enlightening and helpful info, free horse magazines like those many feed-barns around here carry are very useful, and so is a site for which I will give you a link. Equine medicine in general has information on health I have not found in books regarding human health. There's a joke around here that if you get injured or sick, go to a horse doctor, but it's true that people do, and for good reason. Horse doctors become human doctors too, whereas many other vets can't become human doctors. The level of training and value of information equine doctors receive is impressive even when measured against human doctors. Pat Coleby is another one who wrote helpful books, mainly for goat keepers but also for general farming too, explaining soil and how to make it healthier since everything above it depends on the health of the soil below. Here's the link to poultry info.
Quote: Since this is info aimed at vets it concerns chemical and artificial treatment rather than natural, so you'd have to learn that info elsewhere, but Levy gives good info on vitamins and minerals too, and natural treatments. While many have scoffed at her work, and many still do, the modern research and studies are confirming the veracity of them. It takes a fair bit of learning to identify the misinformation that is rampant in so many fields, but the basics are simple enough and helpful, and you'll soon be on your way, I hope.

Best wishes.

 

[sheeshshe]

thank you so much for all of that!

I checked for bumblefoot and didn't see anything, but I can check again. I was only looking for the typical presentation of bumblefoot, so it is possibly that there is an atypical presentation that I missed. I'm going to take her in this afternoon and do a better examination. perhaps I'll take pictures and post some to see if others can figure it out. stay tuned!!!

 

[sheeshshe]

here is the leg she puts weight on.





And here is the 'bad" leg. looks like there is redness in the knee area? what do you think?