I am a "Bit" stumped on what Bit I need!!!

[Bec]

I have an 18 year old thoroughbred who I am working with for my daughter to ride. When we got him almost 4 years ago, she could handle him by herself at 2 years old. My son, at the time was 5, rode him all the time and my friends daughter who was 5, rode him often too.
Well having some time off, he needs some refreshing before I put any of them back on again. My first thing is a proper bit for him. Right now he has a broken egg butt snaffle, but i am not sure if it is right for him. He stops and everything, but every horse I have ever had came with the bit that was sued previously. I have never had to choose and buy a bit.
I would like something that isn't harsh but with have the 'whoa' power of needed. if he could be easily handled by a 2 year old at one point, he could be handled again...lol. He doesn't take well to adults on him, but is great with small children. He is by no means bad when adults are on him, you can just clearly see that he is happier with less weight on him.


Any suggestions on a bit?

 

[patandchickens]

For kids riding a horse, you want a mild bit IMO. If the horse isn't controllable with just a mild bit then he isn't suitable for kids. The problem is that kids are apt to, accidentally or on purpose, yank on the bit pretty hard from time to time (or hang on it for long periods), and that can end badly, either in a chronic or an acute sense, if you know what I mean.

So I really think that kids horses (and lesson horses) should almost always be bitted in something very comfy and mild. For a horse with a big mouth, a fat-mouthed single or double-jointed snaffle with Dee type cheeks is good (the dees help with turning); a horse with less room to carry a bit may be happier with a somewhat thinner bit of the same style. Some horses go real well in mullen-mouth (unjointed) snaffles, preferably either rubber ('dogbone') or curved rather than a *straight* metal bar. (E.t.a. - if you really feel you need a bit more oomph, you could TRY the horse in a kimberwick or a short-shanked pelham with a single rein attached to roundings; either should be used with either a curb STRAP or none at all, not a curb chain. Not all horses go well this way, but some do; they vary in whether they prefer a broken or solid mouth on the kimberwicke or pelham. Another possibility with a bit more oomph, again not suitable for *most* circumstances but sometimes useful for otherwise-good kids' mounts, is a jointed Tom Thumb, used with a single rein on only the curb position and a loose curb strap or none at all)

If your current bit seems fine, then keep using it.

Ideally you'd find a friend with a lightweight but EXPERIENCED, GOOD RIDER child (the type that catch rides at small shows, for example) and have them give your horse a test ride and if needed a few weeks of tuneup.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[farmerlor]

Before you start changing bits, how long has it been since his teeth have been floated?

 

[Akane]

I'd stick with a basic snaffle unless you really do need something stronger. An eggbutt or Dring is fine. I prefer them with a 3 piece mouth so they have less nut cracker action on the tongue and no risk of hitting the top of the mouth. If you need something a little stronger for the kids I would just get a stronger mouthpiece but not a different type of bit. A narrower mouth and things like twisted versus smooth will increase the force some. The only reason I would go that far is adults tend to take for granted how much force they can easily apply to a large horse and the horse gets used to that amount of force. Then the kids try to ride it and can't apply the same amount of force.

Going up to a stronger bit is self defeating for much the same reason I just mentioned above about applying stronger force every time. All you're doing is making the horse's mouth tougher and less sensitive to your signals. If the horse isn't light enough or stopping well enough you should put in more training not a stronger bit. I never go to a stronger bit. I do pick a bit based on what I want to do with the horse. The reason I run barrels with a light combination gag instead of my Dring snaffle isn't because my horses require a stronger bit. It's because the combination gag allows them to pick up the signals quicker and provides more lift and tuck on the nose than a snaffle. It means I don't have to move my hands as far to get the same reaction and the feel on the horses mouth and nose is different. All my barrel horses will trail ride in a Dring snaffle. If I have a horse that can't ride in a basic snaffle I retrain it or I sell it. Different bits have different purposes for different riding styles and competitions. They should not be used in place of training but to improve existing trained signals.


A mullen mouth with the single unjointed bar is actually more severe than a jointed snaffle. There is no release for the horse and it applies a lot of pressure. It doesn't work well with a lot of horses and I'd prefer something with more joints than less. It's easier on the horse's mouth and makes signals less confusing. Especially on a horse that is being direct reined instead of neck reined. Solid bars apply some pressure to the opposite side of the mouth when direct reining which leads to confusion of which way to turn and actually dulls the signal. One reason you don't ride an english horse in a western curb.

 

[dun chick]

Quote:
I definitely would have his teeth checked if it's been a while.

 

[BroncoHollow]

Refresh him back in a snaffel. Use what you had before if it was working for you. I'd stay away from anything with a shank on it.

 

[patandchickens]

To me the solution to a horse gotten a bit hard-mouthed by casual riding from adults is not to bit harder for the kids, it's to retrain the horse to be more sensitive before giving it to kids to ride. A louder bit IME often backfires, as kids are most often not reliably quiet with their hands.

Quote:
I know the above is currently popular to say in some circles, but I don't believe it's possible to rank bits according to absolute severity (with a few exceptions) because it depends so hugely on the particular horse's mouth, the particular horse's way of going, and how the particular rider is using the bit.

But, theory aside, I have to say that I have known a pretty substantial number of horses who went WELL for kids (and adults doing very simple basic riding) in an unjointed snaffle. As long as you're not doing lots of pulling on just one rein at a time and the horse doesn't mind tongue pressure, a lot of horses go fine in them. Some actually seem to prefer them to many of the alternatives.

Theory is nice and all that, but the horse's actual behavior is what really matters IME.

One reason you don't ride an english horse in a western curb.

Well, but you do ride english horses in curbs *sometimes*, using them the same way as you do when riding western i.e. you do NOT direct-rein to turn. A good test/proof of the skill of an upper level dressage rider is to ride movements or a test using only the curb, with the snaffle rein loose; it proves how little you require the bit for turning and suppling the horse. Not all English riding involves direct reining

Anyhow, I do agree totally on the bottom line, to find a simple bit that the horse is happy in and use that.

Pat​

 

[Chick_a_dee]

How about a french link, get the non-pinching variety. it'll cost you a few dollars more, but its worth it for the horses comfort.

 

[Akane]

I understand the whole attempt more experienced people make to discount the severity of bits argument but some bits are just plain more severe in majority of horses' mouths than others. You really can't and shouldn't just rank them in a line on only severity since they do all have different action and that's one reason I tend to refer to them as stronger based on the amount of force they can apply but when we are talking solid mouth versus jointed the solid mouth would generally be called more severe. The same amount of pressure applied to an unjointed snaffle is going to have a greater effect on most than a jointed snaffle. I explained some reasons why already and some reasons why it could be a bad idea. Most kids do ride direct rein and are constantly pulling one rein. No one said this horse neck reined yet. A mullen mouth would not be my suggested bit of choice without a lot more info on the horse and probably seeing it's mouth structure for myself.

Well, but you do ride english horses in curbs *sometimes*, using them the same way as you do when riding western i.e. you do NOT direct-rein to turn

You may use a curb but you rarely use a solid mouth piece plus a shank. The standard western curb bit is not used in most english riding. Leverage bits also tend to be used only on higher levels of english riding on very well trained horses. Unless of course the person is following the misguided notion of solving problems with a stronger bit. Most would agree not to suggest your average rider go get a solid mouth shanked bit to direct rein their horse. Which to me is exactly what is being done when a mullen mouth is suggested in a case like this. This horse also isn't trained to a shanked or solid mouth bit which is going to cause some major issues if the op doesn't know how to introduce it. I sold a mare as a great kid's horse and the child had no trouble riding it on my place. Then I got a call that the mare was tossing her head everywhere and would not turn or listen to a single command to the point it was severely scaring the child. Well they took a mare used to only a dring snaffle and put a curb on her. Then tried to direct rein. I would bet on the same results here.​

 

[Bec]

Well for me, bottom line is that I need something that will be gentle on him. Being that even though my daughter has ridden since she was 2 (she is 5), she is still a little child and relies on her hands a lot because her leg just isn't there yet. I have always taught her to be gentle on the mouth, but the point is that she is still a beginner and makes mistakes.
Now the horse, he raced for 12 years and was a trail horse after that. He is not familiar with ring work and so far has not been bad at all. He has never bolted or done anything bad. I just want what will be good for him and the rider. He will never do more than a walk/trot due to his slight arthritis, the vet recommended him only do light work and have light riders on him.