I An Idea For All of You, do you agree (concerns My Genetics Opinion)

[GAchick]

I have no opinion on 'helping' chicks hatch. So far, all I've hatched is one batch under a hen. I let nature take it's course with the one that was hatched with an unabsorbed yolk.

I have two words to say about 'projects'- hybrid vigor

 

[Goose and Fig]

Quote:
What she said.. exactly.

I totally agree with this as well!!!

I agree too. I can't afford the big reliable incubator yet- and nobody is perfect. I only try to hatch eggs that I believe are from healthy parents. As far as broodies go- I leave them be.

"Project" birds aren't necessarily just cross breeds. And there are lots of people out there wanting to be part of improving existing breeds or adding new colors to the standards. There are also many breeds that aren't available in the US, but with a little tinkering we can "make"them. If the chicks are going to sell, or just make someone happy- why not?

 

[usschicago1]

Thanks Everyone For Your Opinions, I still stand by my not helping chicks hatch, because you cannot know for sure it was humidity or weak chick when you go to "Save" It.

As far as projects i liked your responses. Onthespot your right when the MFC is perfected, the lower qualities will not sell and eventually die out. And I never said you cant experiment, whose to say that That would take all the fun out of chickens, i just think it would be better to see less projects and more rare breeds being worked on. In my opinion there are enough breeds compared to the number of people who have chickens and have concerns about there breeds future.

Thank You All for Your Posts

 

[bantyhen'sfriend]

I must say that I will most likely help out a chick if it has pipped. Due to incubator operator error, I just can't say if that chick is truly weak or if I have done something to cause it to be unable to hatch. In my opinion, I can always cull chicks later, or take them out of the breeding program and use them for layers or meat instead.

As for crossbreds, why the heck not? All chickens have their use as either meat or eggs (with the exception of a few bantams). I don't think you need anything more than basic genetic knowledge, if that, to begin to breed. And many pure breeds have had their color or type improved by "infusing" other breeds into the bloodline. I think calling crossbreeding a "project" is a bit silly until you begin to see positive results, but to each their own.

 

[TurtleFeathers]

Quote:
I have to disagree here, NYREDS...

For example, I have a few mixed breeds in my flock, and IMO, that's just what they are, first and foremost. I enjoy them for their beauty, personalities and eggs. Only a select few of those mixed breeds are what I would consider "project birds" (as a secondary term), because they're part of plan with an ultimate goal.

Of all the people out there with "project birds", some are more serious and knowledgeable about them than others are. That doesn't make one any less of a "project" than the other, IMO.

 

[robin416]

The statement about not helping is an old wives tale that like so many others has been debunked many times.

I am not new to chickens. I have helped artificially incubated eggs out many times. It takes timing and knowledge to know when its appropriate but the out come has always been a good one for me. I still have birds in my coop that are several years old that I helped hatch that have gone on to fill my coops repeatedly.

The fact you ended up with a dwarf has nothing to do with its ability to hatch on its own. I've had my own dwarf that hatched on her own and went on to have normal size chicks.

And it isn't any of our business whether someone calls their mixed breedings a project or not. Some people may not get all the genetics talk, me, but that does not mean that a person can not stand back and analyze what they see in the breeding birds and make the correct decisions on what direction to go. They didn't have genetics experts when the hobby started so many years ago.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Who is trying to breed them and where are you in the 'project'?

Lisa

I thought that was YOUR project.

 

[featherz]

I helped eight guineas out of the egg because *I* screwed up the humidity when they were hatching. They are all healthy happy birds that would be dead today and it would be my fault. So no, not all are genetic defects. I did not help any that had not pipped, and when I helped the first one I knew why the others were having troubles.

 

[cochinman2005]

Interesting Topic. Interesting replies/opinions...

It seems that in every hatch (I have a hatch every week during breeding season (Jan through May, give or take)), there is at least one egg that the chick starts hatching, the membrane dries out, and the chick gets stuck. After you’ve been at this hobby for a number of years, you can tell which ones those are, and I’d say helping them is fine, because my experience is that they pop right out of the egg, are relieved to be out of their little oblong prison, and do just fine. However, the eggs that pip, and don’t do much else, l don’t help them, they weren’t meant to hatch. You’ll get more of them with artificial incubation than you will with using broodies, and that just goes to show that mother nature really does know best. I know it’s very tempting to help them out of their shells. It’s important to note here that I am speaking of hatching chickens only. I know our friends with Call Ducks may have differing opinions on the help vs. don’t help subject. I don’t raise any waterfowl so can’t speak to that at all. When I have helped the occasional chick out of a shell that has only pipped, nine times out of ten you’ll see why he/she wasn’t meant to hatch. Toes fused together, runt, etc, etc. If you have your temp and humidity in the ballpark, you shouldn’t be seeing a lot of pipped eggs without hatching. If you are that’s indicative of other issues like inbreeding or disease.

“Project” Birds: Each to his/her own. However, “What do I get if I breed X and Y together” takes up a bunch of threads in this particular category in the index, and I no longer open them. Bottom line: you get mutts. For some it’s a calculated mutt, and for others it’s a mutt because they were trying to make a pretty color. Some are doing it to improve a breed or variety, and they usually aren’t the ones asking that question. The Punnett Squares and genetic calculators are great tools for predictive analysis, but they are not the end all solution, especially if the person doing the crosses is not 100% sure of the genetic background of the birds being used in the cross. A big portion of improving a breed or variety or even making a new one is trial and error.

I’d like to see more interest in some of our lesser seen breeds and varieties rather than creating a bevy of new ones. There are nine recognized Large Fowl varieties of Cochins. Who has been to a show and seen all nine there? No one reading this thread. If you have, then you are one of the old-timers referenced earlier, and I am jealous that you witnessed Alex’s Brown Cochins in person. The Browns were created a number of years ago, and only a couple people had them. They’ve essentially disappeared and there are a couple people working to resurrect that color. It’s going to take a number of years to get the color right. The Buffs, Whites, and Blacks carry the best type and the correct size in the show halls. The Partridge are coming back around after years of neglect, but again, there are only a few people working on them. The Barreds, Golden Laced and Silver Laced are not good; period. They are too small, the GLs and SLs have poor lacing and again, very few people are working with them. There is no such thing as a Giant Cochin. There are two sizes, Large and Bantam. The Standard of Perfection defines the correct size and type for both sizes. Large Fowl Cochins from hatcheries are just undersized according to the standard. I’m straying a bit from the original topic, but my point is that there are beautiful varieties and breeds that need dedicated breeders. For a number of years there has been a desire to get Large Mottled Cochin recognized by the APA. We even tried to organize a qualifying meet, but it never materialized. I’ve heard plenty of people complain that they can’t find stock or the breeders that do have them won’t let any go. If you are really interested in Large Mottled Cochins, then keep hounding those breeders. They’ll see you are serious and will part with some birds I bet. But the experience has been that when they do let them go, the folks they sell them to never do anything with them, or use them to try and make a pretty new color. I am using Cochins as an example, because that’s one of the breeds I raise in both Large and Bantam and I do have a couple projects in the works, so this is a topic which I can relate to. I am working on Self-Blue Bantam Cochins, and working to improve Large Golden Laced Cochins, which will eventually lend itself to improving the Silver Laced. And yes, I have done a number of crosses. With the large GL’s I’ve even gone outside the breed to improve the lacing. Take a look at a good Silver Laced Wyandotte and you’ll see why.

 

[slackwater]

Quote:
Is that why you didn't get back to me about wanting to find some GL cochins? I have been trying to establish breeding stock, but am not *as* serious as you (they are a hobby, not a career). LOL - I guess I am hijacking the thread, but...is there room for the little guys to work on a breed also? Or are large-timey breeders only willing to talk to us if we have a full-scale operation that mirrors their own?