I chickened out, couldn't cull her (SEE PG 6)

[NurseELB]

Okay, I'm up and see there's no new advice. I changed the topic line to see if I can catch...

SHE "MOANED" ALL DAY!! Is she in pain?? What else can I do?

Her abdomen is still squishy, but not as much. She's still doing the "penguin" thing.

I'm going to try to drain her again in the morning mostly because she acts like she REALLY wants to live. I just don't know what else to do...

 

[California Ducken]

Let's keep you bumped.
Good Luck!

 

[NurseELB]

Thank you, Ducken. I'm headed to work now, usually have time to check periodically but not 'till later.

Right now she's holding on, seems like a chronic issue at this point. I really want to get her out of the tub and back with her sisters. I know she misses them.

The funniest part of all this is last week we went camping. There was no one to watch her, so guess what? WE TOOK THE CHICKEN CAMPING! She did really well, seemed to like it, but CAMPING?, REALLY?

I've got to do something!

 

[Sillystunt]

gessh ,i am so sorry your poor chicken is going through this!

I can only offer you a bump and love!

 

[greenesacres]

Bump

 

[dlhunicorn]

A member pmd me about this post ... sorry I did not see this earlier (so easy to miss things as the forum is now set up) > I live in Holland so there is also a very large time gap (I always respond to my pms altho sometimes I forget I am logged in here and my computer is still on

) In addition to the thread in the EMERGENCY section on reproductive disorders at my library I also have a thread in the DISEASE section:
http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=linksgeneralinfo&action=display&num=1158765194

First off
> crush a TUM and give her immediately (see comment on this below)
>have a bowl of yogurt separate to the feed available at all times for her (a good live culture one-unflavored and if you have one of those acidolpholus type probiotic (human-doesnt matter ) open that tab and mix in with the yogurt. DO NOT GIVE MILK (I have a thread on this at my library explaining why:
http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=feednutrition&action=display&num=1161162360
(it wont kill them but it can exacerbate E.coli and cause intestinal upset which can interfere with absorption of nutrients)
>If you happen to have some (foodgrade) cinnamon oil you can put a few drops (7-10) of that in the yogurt (see research here:
http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/ind...estoantibiotics&action=display&num=1158484109
(scroll down to post #4 to read research on this as to why I suggest this)

I've never wormed them, but I don't see anything in her poo.

I would have done this immediately and I suggest you do so (dont wait till she recovers but then only with ivermectin or ivomecEprinex>>>Even though she is so ill I urge you to worm your bird and since your bird is so ill I would recommend you give this wormer (you can only occasionally see adult phase worms... many types of worms will rarely be passed out thru the vent) > when birds are weak worms soon follow and I suspect she may have had worms before all this got so out of hand.... There are probably several different things going on here ... use the spot on method (topically at base of neck > be sure it is on the skin not the feathers)

Quote:
you stated earlier that you had a thread up a while back about her laying soft shell eggs...
>>> Give a crushed TUM today and tommorrow ...this is also an emergency substitute for the calcium gluconate a vet would give for reproductive crisis where passing the egg (or retained pieces of a broken egg) are suspected (btw if the egg is higher up you would not have "felt" anything when you examined her internally > I do not support this internal exam as birds can reverse the movement of their contractions which you risk by doing this and it does nothing useful for the bird or to help the situation) put the bird in a warm bath for a few minutes) can't hurt and might very well help ... the "cooked egg" you described might have been from a softshell egg broke way up high in the reproductive tract (and was more solid through its passage thru the reprod tract) > she might be straining due to another softshell egg "stuck"there > they are not always of normal size etc. when there are problems... so I dont think we can rule out this possibility (so give the TUM and warm bath)

The mash is a great idea, and I plan on feeding it to her as well.

Please do not give the milk (e.coli is often indicated in reproductive disorder >see my comments above) and do not give the "selenium tablet" (no dosage given) > see my discussion with glenda on that here (very narrow therapeutic range and toxic when overdosed):
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2388550#p2388550

When a bird is this ill she will have malabsorption (which means even when she does eat enough she is unable to absorb the nutrients from it)
I would get some babyparrot/bird hand-feeding formula (sold at petstores or online which is a powder you mix with water) and mix that in with her feed > this will concentrate the nutrition. Dont go giving her a bunch of greens and such she normally doesnt eat >keep it simple and dont change her diet too drastically (add the handfeeding formula to her normal feed > dont give scratch grains and encourage her to eat the yogurt)> you can add a cooked egg yolk through her feed if this makes it more palatable
>I also suggest you give four drops of POLYVISOL enfamil once a day for a week then taper off the next (liquid childrens A-B-D vitamin) > this time for the D3 and also if you have it AviaCharge 2000 (great general suppement sold online from McMurry or Strombergs)

Last but not least > keep her in a stress free environment like the bathroom or other mainly empty room with little traffic if she is in the house > she may not protest if in a room with people coming and going but birds get real quiet when they are stressed and it is best not to have her in a place with strange people smells and such when she is not used to that.

Your birdie is lucky to have you ... I have seen so many at deaths door recover and others that didnt seem so bad suddenly drop dead and the only thing you can do is give it your best try (((hugs)))

ETA: worstcase scenario:
http://www.avianmedicine.net/ampa/29.pdf
(see pg 768 > oviduct impaction)​

 

[Judy]

Quote:
I would have done this immediately and I suggest you do so (dont wait till she recovers but then only with ivermectin or ivomecEprinex>>>Even though she is so ill I urge you to worm your bird and since your bird is so ill I would recommend you give this wormer (you can only occasionally see adult phase worms... many types of worms will rarely be passed out thru the vent) > when birds are weak worms soon follow and I suspect she may have had worms before all this got so out of hand.... There are probably several different things going on here ... use the spot on method (topically at base of neck > be sure it is on the skin not the feathers)

Quote:
you stated earlier that you had a thread up a while back about her laying soft shell eggs...
>>> Give a crushed TUM today and tommorrow ...this is also an emergency substitute for the calcium gluconate a vet would give for reproductive crisis where passing the egg (or retained pieces of a broken egg) are suspected (btw if the egg is higher up you would not have "felt" anything when you examined her internally > I do not support this internal exam as birds can reverse the movement of their contractions which you risk by doing this and it does nothing useful for the bird or to help the situation) put the bird in a warm bath for a few minutes) can't hurt and might very well help ... the "cooked egg" you described might have been from a softshell egg broke way up high in the reproductive tract (and was more solid through its passage thru the reprod tract) > she might be straining due to another softshell egg "stuck"there > they are not always of normal size etc. when there are problems... so I dont think we can rule out this possibility (so give the TUM and warm bath)

The mash is a great idea, and I plan on feeding it to her as well.

Please do not give the milk (e.coli is often indicated in reproductive disorder >see my comments above) and do not give the "selenium tablet" (no dosage given) > see my discussion with glenda on that here (very narrow therapeutic range and toxic when overdosed):
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2388550#p2388550

When a bird is this ill she will have malabsorption (which means even when she does eat enough she is unable to absorb the nutrients from it)
I would get some babyparrot/bird hand-feeding formula (sold at petstores or online which is a powder you mix with water) and mix that in with her feed > this will concentrate the nutrition. Dont go giving her a bunch of greens and such she normally doesnt eat >keep it simple and dont change her diet too drastically (add the handfeeding formula to her normal feed > dont give scratch grains and encourage her to eat the yogurt)> you can add a cooked egg yolk through her feed if this makes it more palatable
>I also suggest you give four drops of POLYVISOL enfamil (liquid childrens A-B-D vitamin) > this time for the D3 and also if you have it AviaCharge 2000 (great general suppement sold online from McMurry or Strombergs)

Last but not least > keep her in a stress free environment like the bathroom or other mainly empty room with little traffic if she is in the house > she may not protest if in a room with people coming and going but birds get real quiet when they are stressed and it is best not to have her in a place with strange people smells and such when she is not used to that.

Your birdie is lucky to have you ... I have seen so many at deaths door recover and others that didnt seem so bad suddenly drop dead and the only thing you can do is give it your best try (((hugs)))

I am so glad you jumped in here.​

 

[dlhunicorn]

I am just sorry I missed it earlier... so many postings
I do try to check in daily and I always read and respond to pms (in deed if not personally)

 

[Judy]

Quote:
I try to be sure the bad stuff is not missed. Some of it I can deal with, but my knowledge is sometimes quite insufficient, so you might get a PM from me now and then. I'm a people nurse, not a chicken nurse.

 

[NurseELB]

Thank You Miss Unicorn!!

I am unfortunately having a VERY stressful night at work (apparently somebody posted a sign outside the ER stating we were hurting for business- EVERYBODY in the city is here!). This is the first chance I've had to check the site, but I can't do anything with her until I get home anyway.

We gave her your yogurt/egg/layer pellet crumbles/applesauce mash. No milk. The yogurt is plain with live cultures. I was giving her electrolytes in her water, but have backed off because I THOUGHT she was getting better for a while. I did add some organic cider vinegar to her water- 2tbsp to a gallon.

I will give the TUMS as soon as I get home, and follow the other advice as best I can- I'll send DH to the pet store to look for the baby parrot formula.

THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!!

I will keep you posted!