I have to talk POLISH!

[chickendales]

Quote:
Oh Seminole...I am so sorry. I hope to have hatching eggs in the spring. Mine have taken a growth spurt this past week. The male having had "feather spikes" sprout of his crest crowed over the weekend and scared the crap out of himself.

Crow..jump back...crow..jump back. I have seem him try to mount the pullet a couple times so....keeping fingers crossed. I am having surgery next Tuesday and be in physical rehab for 2 weeks after. I would bet my eye teeth she will probably lay while I am gone!

Here are a couple pics. Not the best in the world because they do not stand still for pics!!
Anyone have any comments??

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/70714_s5031856.jpg

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/70714_s5031825.jpg

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/70714_s5031821.jpg

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/70714_s5031893.jpg

This is Jazz...she came from a hatchery...not for breeding just as a pet...though she is really nice.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/70714_s5031039.jpg

BigDaddy....sooo glad you started this thread...I had just started to enjoy the other one then it was closed...bummer.

i would breed that barred to both the golden and the crele
that barred male well do well through u nice babies to non cuckoo babies

 

[seminolewind]

Thankyou all for your thoughts. It means alot. People without chickens just don't understand.

TnBarnQueen, I think your Creles look alot plumper than mine did. I love the colors. They are very lovely. Hopefully your cockerel will "grow into his crow", LOL.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Thank you Tiny, if you were talking to me....there's been some other birds on here but I am the OP. First, they did come from a breeder. 2nd my goal is not SQ, I'm not interested in showing, am interested in breeding a good looking bird for pets. I sit with the breed standards printed out in front of me, staring at my chickens so much I think my neighbors think I'm a crazy chicken lady! And compared to some I've seen on here, my are pretty nice birds. I know they're not SQ but there are three that I think are pretty nice birds, but from what I've seen, they certainly are not poor quality but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I do appreciate yours.

I've bred cocker spaniels for over 30 years and I have spoke those very words you are saying to me, on more then one occasion, to someone who had a cocker spaniel that I felt they shouldn't breed. However, with cockers it was usually more times health, temperament and lack of have basic information on the two dogs that I was concerned with. And many times I had issues with the show breeders who were willing to breed a perfect looking dog that had no other qualities and health issues just to take home that title, but I digress.....so I hear you and I have had many a discussion with myself

as to what my goals will be with these birds and how what I choose will effect the breed itself. So I thank you and everyone who has given their opinions. I have time to do some swapping around of what I keep and see what I want to add before anything starts happening. I already have a list of people who would like some eye candy pets in their yards and I feel my chickens have some pretty nice Polish qualities that wouldn't make someone wonder if it was a Polish or not. So pet homes are OK for me and actually a goal.....hey, you never know what will happen when I get started......

It's OK if everyone's goals are not the same. Sunnydawn is breeding her Marans for egg color....she could have a really funky looking chicken throwing some beautiful chocolate eggs. By standards that bird would be culled but because Sunny has a different goal for breeding that odd girl stays and gets to make some babies that hopefully even darker chocolate eggs! Hey, it makes the world go around, as long as the the birds are being well taken care of, respectfully managed, they knock your socks off and have some fun!

all right i would like to point out something from the bolded quote. so your breeder gave you these birds that are hatchery quality. you plan to breed them. your pet quality chicks may eventually get to someone who wants to breed them, so that person breeds for your lines. who ever buys their birds has poor quality polish too. do you see what i mean now? it is the responsibility of all breeders who plan to regularly sell thier stock to conform as closely as possible to the breed standard AND, i agree, also to have the healthiest possible birds that you can't usually get from hatchery based stock. if everyone does thier part, in the future there will be more better quality polish in the world. even as pet birds, breed standards almost always are based on function (araucanas are supposed to be rumpless because it made it harder for foxes to catch them. that's why they were bred that way. now an araucana must be rumpless to conform to the SOP. similarly a breeder of labrador retrievers must breed thier dogs to have webbed feet. it's part of the standard for them, but it's there because they are a breed that must swim to retrieve water fowl.) polish must be able to see under thier crests so they won't be as easily taken by predators, for example. well bred animals also tend to be healthier, hardier and longer lived as well, in the same way a well bred dog is healthier than a puppy mill pup.

i know i'm being a little hyper about this and it won't make a whole lot of difference if just you bred poor birds, but what if everyone said that? then the world would be full of irresponsible breeders and unhealthy animals! there is a much bigger market for well bred animals and you'll get more respect as a breeder with excellent chickens that are kept within a single type and strain than with polish of more than questionable linages. even if they are only for pet homes. people who don't care what thier pets are like go to hatcheries. responsible, serious poultry owners go to breeders. you might sell to friends or neighbors, but don't expect a flourishing business with the birds you own currently.

about your last paragraph, that's quite true, but with these birds, what is your breeding goal besides just producing chicks? producing a WCB's? blacks with that gold leakage (that i think looks beautiful even if it is a DQ)? makeing your own color or type (feather footed? silkied? red mottled?) even if it's not to the standard, at least have a goal to accomplish in your breeding project.

i'm not trying to pick on you, but as a cocker spaniel breeder, you know as well as i do that you should be have a breeding goal and know as much as possible about what you are breeding before you even start, at least! i would be annoyed at me, but it's all importent stuff and i'd rather have enlightened people who are annoyed at me than people blundering off into the unknown even though we are on generally good terms lol. so sorry for being a nag, i hope my annoyingness will help in the long run

--Tiny

Bigdaddysmom, I agree with you. I could sit out all day and look at how beautiful mine are, even moreso with their imperfections. I understand what you're saying about breeding for different types of qualities, my splash Polish may be flawed, but her and the other 3 girls Have such sweet personalities and are beautiful in many ways-are the reasons that I want to breed them. I know with dogs and horses, people are alot better off breeding for temperment as a priority; what good is a perfect looking animal if they are mean or nasty, however, you want them to look like the breed they are with nice physical qualities.

I also think that in the plight to get SQ animals, there's alot of inbreeding involved and that might not make genetically healthy chickens. There may also be alot of culling involved, sometimes this means killing an awful lot of so-called flawed chickens to get to that SQ goal. I know alot of us do not care about SQ to the point of doing this. Most of us are very happy with nice looking birds that are easy going , and hopefully show us that they like us even without a treat.

I don't think anyone here has the right to call someone's chickens "poor quality". I remember Illia once saying to me that I have one nice BLP, but the spurs are not desireable. I appreciated her comment, and the details, and tactfulness.

 

[calicokat]

Seminole, so sorry you lost a favorite. They steal your heart and when you lose one, it's just never the same

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
Isn't it always that way-she did steal my heart. Thankyou for the hug.

 

[seminolewind]

BarnQueen, I hope your surgery goes well. I hope you take a laptop with you! Most hospitals have wi-fi

 

[exop]

Quote:
Thank you Tiny, if you were talking to me....there's been some other birds on here but I am the OP. First, they did come from a breeder. 2nd my goal is not SQ, I'm not interested in showing, am interested in breeding a good looking bird for pets. I sit with the breed standards printed out in front of me, staring at my chickens so much I think my neighbors think I'm a crazy chicken lady! And compared to some I've seen on here, my are pretty nice birds. I know they're not SQ but there are three that I think are pretty nice birds, but from what I've seen, they certainly are not poor quality but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I do appreciate yours.

I've bred cocker spaniels for over 30 years and I have spoke those very words you are saying to me, on more then one occasion, to someone who had a cocker spaniel that I felt they shouldn't breed. However, with cockers it was usually more times health, temperament and lack of have basic information on the two dogs that I was concerned with. And many times I had issues with the show breeders who were willing to breed a perfect looking dog that had no other qualities and health issues just to take home that title, but I digress.....so I hear you and I have had many a discussion with myself

as to what my goals will be with these birds and how what I choose will effect the breed itself. So I thank you and everyone who has given their opinions. I have time to do some swapping around of what I keep and see what I want to add before anything starts happening. I already have a list of people who would like some eye candy pets in their yards and I feel my chickens have some pretty nice Polish qualities that wouldn't make someone wonder if it was a Polish or not. So pet homes are OK for me and actually a goal.....hey, you never know what will happen when I get started......

It's OK if everyone's goals are not the same. Sunnydawn is breeding her Marans for egg color....she could have a really funky looking chicken throwing some beautiful chocolate eggs. By standards that bird would be culled but because Sunny has a different goal for breeding that odd girl stays and gets to make some babies that hopefully even darker chocolate eggs! Hey, it makes the world go around, as long as the the birds are being well taken care of, respectfully managed, they knock your socks off and have some fun!

all right i would like to point out something from the bolded quote. so your breeder gave you these birds that are hatchery quality. you plan to breed them. your pet quality chicks may eventually get to someone who wants to breed them, so that person breeds for your lines. who ever buys their birds has poor quality polish too. do you see what i mean now? it is the responsibility of all breeders who plan to regularly sell thier stock to conform as closely as possible to the breed standard AND, i agree, also to have the healthiest possible birds that you can't usually get from hatchery based stock. if everyone does thier part, in the future there will be more better quality polish in the world. even as pet birds, breed standards almost always are based on function (araucanas are supposed to be rumpless because it made it harder for foxes to catch them. that's why they were bred that way. now an araucana must be rumpless to conform to the SOP. similarly a breeder of labrador retrievers must breed thier dogs to have webbed feet. it's part of the standard for them, but it's there because they are a breed that must swim to retrieve water fowl.) polish must be able to see under thier crests so they won't be as easily taken by predators, for example. well bred animals also tend to be healthier, hardier and longer lived as well, in the same way a well bred dog is healthier than a puppy mill pup.

i know i'm being a little hyper about this and it won't make a whole lot of difference if just you bred poor birds, but what if everyone said that? then the world would be full of irresponsible breeders and unhealthy animals! there is a much bigger market for well bred animals and you'll get more respect as a breeder with excellent chickens that are kept within a single type and strain than with polish of more than questionable linages. even if they are only for pet homes. people who don't care what thier pets are like go to hatcheries. responsible, serious poultry owners go to breeders. you might sell to friends or neighbors, but don't expect a flourishing business with the birds you own currently.

about your last paragraph, that's quite true, but with these birds, what is your breeding goal besides just producing chicks? producing a WCB's? blacks with that gold leakage (that i think looks beautiful even if it is a DQ)? makeing your own color or type (feather footed? silkied? red mottled?) even if it's not to the standard, at least have a goal to accomplish in your breeding project.

i'm not trying to pick on you, but as a cocker spaniel breeder, you know as well as i do that you should be have a breeding goal and know as much as possible about what you are breeding before you even start, at least! i would be annoyed at me, but it's all importent stuff and i'd rather have enlightened people who are annoyed at me than people blundering off into the unknown even though we are on generally good terms lol. so sorry for being a nag, i hope my annoyingness will help in the long run

--Tiny

Looking at this discussion, I am reminded of something I read in an old poultry book (I looked for the reference but could not find it). The author said something like "breeding birds which are above average quality for a breed tends to result in a fair number of offspring whose quality is just average; breeding below average quality birds also tends to produce a fair number of offspring who are average quality (better than their parents)". Sounds whacked out, but I have seen it in action in a pair of Jersey Giants I started with several years ago. Although breeder stock, they were rather poor quality in terms of vigor, build, and comb shape; but selecting from their offspring, I have gotten some much improved birds. You can really see a variation among chicks, even from a single mother and father, especially if you keep track of who develops feathers first, who is the largest / heaviest / fastest growing, who appears most alert, etc... or for Polish, pay attention to stance, coloring, body shape, crest development, tail shape, look at old illustrations as well as the Standard if possible. The shape of the crest can be almost entirely predicted from the shape of skull a chick has when it is hatched.

Best - exop

 

[cuntryuppiechick]

I have some birds of the same variety in all three levels of quality, poor, pet, and show. The SQ are the only ones to have had health problems and their personalities are not very good. If breeders showed records of health and bred for that as well I would be much more supportive of the idea of show quality breeding only.

Sorry you've lost a baby seminole.

 

[HighNDryFarm]

Quote:
This is exactly correct. The owner of one of the stallions that I used when I was breeding, had this mare that was just an ugly mare....but when she was bred to this stallion, they made the most amazing foals! Those babies were sold for big money before hitting the ground but if you hadn't ever seen what this mare threw, you wouldn't have stopped to even pet her!

 

[HighNDryFarm]

Quote:
Thank you Tiny, if you were talking to me....there's been some other birds on here but I am the OP. First, they did come from a breeder. 2nd my goal is not SQ, I'm not interested in showing, am interested in breeding a good looking bird for pets. I sit with the breed standards printed out in front of me, staring at my chickens so much I think my neighbors think I'm a crazy chicken lady! And compared to some I've seen on here, my are pretty nice birds. I know they're not SQ but there are three that I think are pretty nice birds, but from what I've seen, they certainly are not poor quality but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I do appreciate yours.

I've bred cocker spaniels for over 30 years and I have spoke those very words you are saying to me, on more then one occasion, to someone who had a cocker spaniel that I felt they shouldn't breed. However, with cockers it was usually more times health, temperament and lack of have basic information on the two dogs that I was concerned with. And many times I had issues with the show breeders who were willing to breed a perfect looking dog that had no other qualities and health issues just to take home that title, but I digress.....so I hear you and I have had many a discussion with myself

as to what my goals will be with these birds and how what I choose will effect the breed itself. So I thank you and everyone who has given their opinions. I have time to do some swapping around of what I keep and see what I want to add before anything starts happening. I already have a list of people who would like some eye candy pets in their yards and I feel my chickens have some pretty nice Polish qualities that wouldn't make someone wonder if it was a Polish or not. So pet homes are OK for me and actually a goal.....hey, you never know what will happen when I get started......

It's OK if everyone's goals are not the same. Sunnydawn is breeding her Marans for egg color....she could have a really funky looking chicken throwing some beautiful chocolate eggs. By standards that bird would be culled but because Sunny has a different goal for breeding that odd girl stays and gets to make some babies that hopefully even darker chocolate eggs! Hey, it makes the world go around, as long as the the birds are being well taken care of, respectfully managed, they knock your socks off and have some fun!

all right i would like to point out something from the bolded quote. so your breeder gave you these birds that are hatchery quality. you plan to breed them. your pet quality chicks may eventually get to someone who wants to breed them, so that person breeds for your lines. who ever buys their birds has poor quality polish too. do you see what i mean now? it is the responsibility of all breeders who plan to regularly sell thier stock to conform as closely as possible to the breed standard AND, i agree, also to have the healthiest possible birds that you can't usually get from hatchery based stock. if everyone does thier part, in the future there will be more better quality polish in the world. even as pet birds, breed standards almost always are based on function (araucanas are supposed to be rumpless because it made it harder for foxes to catch them. that's why they were bred that way. now an araucana must be rumpless to conform to the SOP. similarly a breeder of labrador retrievers must breed thier dogs to have webbed feet. it's part of the standard for them, but it's there because they are a breed that must swim to retrieve water fowl.) polish must be able to see under thier crests so they won't be as easily taken by predators, for example. well bred animals also tend to be healthier, hardier and longer lived as well, in the same way a well bred dog is healthier than a puppy mill pup.

i know i'm being a little hyper about this and it won't make a whole lot of difference if just you bred poor birds, but what if everyone said that? then the world would be full of irresponsible breeders and unhealthy animals! there is a much bigger market for well bred animals and you'll get more respect as a breeder with excellent chickens that are kept within a single type and strain than with polish of more than questionable linages. even if they are only for pet homes. people who don't care what thier pets are like go to hatcheries. responsible, serious poultry owners go to breeders. you might sell to friends or neighbors, but don't expect a flourishing business with the birds you own currently.

about your last paragraph, that's quite true, but with these birds, what is your breeding goal besides just producing chicks? producing a WCB's? blacks with that gold leakage (that i think looks beautiful even if it is a DQ)? makeing your own color or type (feather footed? silkied? red mottled?) even if it's not to the standard, at least have a goal to accomplish in your breeding project.

i'm not trying to pick on you, but as a cocker spaniel breeder, you know as well as i do that you should be have a breeding goal and know as much as possible about what you are breeding before you even start, at least! i would be annoyed at me, but it's all importent stuff and i'd rather have enlightened people who are annoyed at me than people blundering off into the unknown even though we are on generally good terms lol. so sorry for being a nag, i hope my annoyingness will help in the long run

--Tiny

So Tiny, I appreciate your energy on this thread. So, as I always do when someone give their opinion on something, I want to know where that person gets their experience to make such judgments and opinions. In searching your posts on BYC and your page I see that you don't show Polish (or even own one). I did find a post of a WCB that was DQ that you were asking about for showing about a year ago but you also have him listed on a post of all the Roo's you have lost this last year (I believe 8). In addition, most of your posts are asking for help for sick animals or complaining about how mean people are to you on certain threads. Nobody likes a bully. Also, and I will quote you on this post because it's just one of many of your posts that contradicts what you're saying here and speaks of your inexperience in breeding and showing. These posts are all within the last year.

Now I'm going to discontinue conversation with you and your posts on this threads because you don't have the experience to discuss this topic at the level that you are posting.
Quote:
I pray this won't lock the thread! But people need good information and if you speak like an expert, you need to be one.