I lost Chloe today...

[jimnjay]

Carrie, I am so sorry to hear about Chloe and Molly. I would check out http://www.firststatevetsupply.com/ The fellow who owns this store is a PHD in poultry science. They have a message board as well and he may be able to help you with what is going on. If you decide to buy any supplements his will cost lots less thant what you would get for caged birds and he gives you the appropriate dosage for chickens in my opinion. You can buy Wheatgerm Oil that is very high in A&D.

I would also make sure to add 2 teaspoons of Apple Cider Vinegar to the water. It helps them absorb the vitamines and is an overall immune booster. Many people use the organic vinegar that has the mother (sedament) in it.

 

[sweetmama65000]

Carrie, i am so sorry to hear about your loss. i have only too recently been through that myself, so i understand what you are feeling. i hope you can get some answers on what happened to Chloe. she certainly was a beautiful bird.

 

[thechickenfarmer]

Hi Carri,
So sorry about your losses. It's so hard, especially when you're not exactly sure what's going on. Had you been giving your chickens oyster shell before Molly's death? I have it out free choice and sometimes it hardly seems like they touch it but lately I've noticed they're really going for it. I guess they know when they need the extra calcium. I give my chickens whole heads of cabbage to pick at also, it's kept them busy this winter and has lots of calcium. Did you get other chickens from the same breeder as Molly and Chloe? Jen

 

[dlhunicorn]

If you are certain that the amount of table scraps you give would not have interfered with the general basic amount of layer feed necessary for the birds then I have been looking at possible other sources of substance to interfere with calcium absorption...there are many ,however you might consider the following: Do you have limestone in your runs...do you have a well ... have you fertilized (see below) in a place where your chickens free-range? (see link below) it also might not be from you but from the person you got them from...so difficult to figure out sometimes particularly when necropsies often can only point out the findings but not give the cause....
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/211000.htm
(excerpt...please go to link and read the rest)..."...Toxic quantities of fluorides occur naturally, eg, certain rock phosphates and the superphosphates produced from them, partially defluorinated phosphates, and the phosphatic limestones. In certain areas, drinking water from deep wells may contain high levels of fluorides. Volcanic ash may be high in fluoride. Wastes from industrial processes, fertilizers, and mineral supplements are the most common causes of chronic fluorosisFluoride binds to Ca2+, Mg2+, and Mn2+, acting as a direct cellular poison (including bacterial cells, hence its use in dental hygiene). At high levels most fluorides are corrosive to tissue. In bone, fluoride binds calcium and replaces the hydroxyl groups in the mineral part of bone, which is mostly hydroxyapatite. In teeth developed during fluoride ingestion, the enamel is less soluble (protective) and more dense (brittle, if excessive). In addition, faulty mineralization of teeth and bones occurs when excessive fluoride interferes with intracellular calcium metabolism and damages ameloblasts and odontoblasts........................
Casual observation of affected animals may suggest chronic debilitating arthritis; osteoporosis; or deficiency of calcium, phosphorus, or vitamin D. Lameness in advanced cases may be wrongly attributed to an accident. "

 

[Llysse]

Wow--that's great information!

 

[CarriBrown]

Good info, DL... I'll have to mention that when I go today for the necropsy. It just seems awfully strange that this has happened twice... and I bought those birds at the same time from the same person. HOWEVER, I have bought other birds from this person and they are perfectly fine.
I don't use fertilizer in my backyard, only compost and horse manure. They don't go anywhere near that area anyway. We are on city water. As far as I know, there is no Limestone. I haven't added it, but I've only lived in this house for two years.
You're right about necropsy findings... With Molly, all they said was she died from lack of calcium. What I really wanted to know was, Was it a birth defect? Was it something she ate or didn't eat? etc. They didn't have an answer for me.

 

[CarriBrown]

PS to JimnJay- I'll check out his site and start adding vitamins to their feed, as well as the vinegar.
ChickenFarmer- I don't have them on oyster shell because they have a huge run, but I guess it won't hurt.
I'm finding out very quickly that commercial feed is geared towards the big guys (ie the laying farms that only need their birds to live 2 years) instead of us, who have our birds as pets and want to keep them alive and healthy.

 

[dlhunicorn]

We are on city water

hmmm....I remember reading of incidents and complaints from ppl that city water is often found to have (fluctuating) high levels (fluoride)...
No...I do not think it would be genetic...surely from something they ingested...or ... their systems were so depleted of reserves (why I would not know > how old were they when you got them?) that they needed the oytershell supplement and you said you had not been offering this (which I would highly advise you do). Oxalic acid will also interfere with calcium absorption...it is why many foods (scraps or out of garden) are warned about not to give to the laying hen...such as spinach etc....you can easily do a search on the foods high in oxalic acid/oxalates... perhaps your hens pigged out on a naturally occuring plant/vegetable (table scraps) that you are unaware of the oxalicacid problem??? At any rate please do offer oytershell and in addition free choice yogurt is also a great addition. In the wintertime I also mix cooked oatmeal through their feed >just enough to clump the feed together (cooked in water not milk as birds cannot process the lactose in milk) as this has been shown in a Cornell study to aid in digestion and the uptake of calcium .​

 

[CarriBrown]

Floride in the water...That could be it. We get water test results from the city every couple of months and I remember that being an issue... We have very hard water, so hard that it stains our toilets and pool and we have to clean them with CLR.
OK so I'll feed oyster shell and add the vinegar to their water. Mary was also saying that she feeds her girls scrambled eggs with garlic and oil once a week. They got eggs and oil yesterday but I'm allergic to garlic/onions so we never have it at the house. I'll have to go buy a jar of it minced already.
They were both around 6 months when I got them.
I do feed the girls oatmeal but not that often.

 

[bigzio]

Carri, sorry to hear about you loss. I also feed layer mash, and oyster shell free choice and is amazing how much of it they eat. I dry my egg shells, crush to small pieces and feed them back to my chickens, they are almost 100% cacium and the hens prefer them over the oyster shells, however we can't eat enough eggs to provide enough shells, so we also buy the oyster shells.

My hens also free range and still love the extra calcium I provide them. Good Luck.

bigzio