I may be growing my own food for the chickens after all, due to genetic editing

[saysfaa]

I know a bit about ponds, both stocked farm ponds and ornamental ponds, for my native environment in subtropical Florida. I have access to many exotic plants that wouldn’t overwinter where you are. Hydrilla is at the top of the list for a nutritious water weed that grows fast and can be thrown to chickens in its raw state right out of the pond. I doubt it will overwinter in your climate though. Although it might if your spring-fed pond retains a constant temperature year-round as springs in Florida do. You’ll need to check your state regs on its legality. Its prohibited in much of the country but easy to harvest in the wild where its already established.

In your habitat, do you have small, stagnant, ponds in your woods that produce fish? In Florida such sort of temporary pond or stream is common and there are many species that thrive without aeration. If you have similar species where you are, look into stocking those. See if you have warmouth:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmouth

Good info, thank you.

Hydrilla hasn't been reported in my state or neighboring states according to their invasive species websites. It is prohibited in several states in this region. It sounds well worth using if you already have it.

I haven't heard of warmouth but the link says rock bass fill a similar niche. We have rock bass in nearby lakes.

I don't think we get anything much like the pools you describe. The closest I can think of are the pools from snow melt; they don't last very long. Or what we call "wet spots" or "holes" - basically springs that don't quite make it to the ground surface. They are quite permanent but rarely have standing water.

 

[raingarden]

I haven't heard of warmouth but the link says rock bass fill a similar niche. We have rock bass in nearby lakes.

You may not want a carnivorous fish. It will take ten times more primary production (plants and algae that grow through sunlight and nutrients) to make a pound of fish. You are jumping up one trophic level. Look for herbiverous fish like cyprinids (carp-like or minnow-like fish) that feed low on the food chain. Also, look into the Chinese systems that use a variety of carp species (bottom feeders, plankton feeders and larger plant feeders) to maxime production from a pond. Many of those cyprinids are common invasives now. Tilapia zilli is a good plant eater in warmer climates.

 

[saysfaa]

At this point, alewives are my first choice of fish. They eat zooplankton, insect larva, and larval fish so are low in the food chain. They are also easier for me to get than most fish - I can pick them up off the public beaches during the die offs. Last year, there was a massive die off but there is some every year.

They are invasive and a nuisance on the beaches in this region so there are no legal or environmental issues with gathering them around here. That isn't so in their native range.

Alewives have an enzyme (or something) that breaks down thiamin so it is important to make sure the chickens get enough thiamine if they eat many alewives. PoultryDMV website says chickens are more susceptible to thiamine deficiency than mammals are.

 

[saysfaa]

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fchem.2016.00032/full

Nutrient Value of Leaf vs Seed

...Seed protein is a composite of hundreds of different enzymes and structural proteins, however, its protein complement is dominated by a family of storage proteins: In corn kernels its zein, which comprises up to 60% of the endosperm protein; in wheat grains its glutenins, which accounts for 40% of the grain protein; in the rice grain its glutelins, which comprise over 80% of the seed protein.
...
However, along with individuality, an imbalance in nutritional composition often crops up. Many seeds are deficient in one or more of the essential amino acids...several cereal grains are deficient in lysine and tryptophan, while legume pulses are often deficient in methionine and/or cysteine...

Leaf protein is likewise composed of hundreds of enzymes and is likewise dominated by a single polypeptide complex: RUBISCO is a crucial component in the photosynthetic fixation of atmospheric carbon ... and can account for 50% of total leaf cell protein.
...
RUBISCO is pretty much the same protein in all green leafy plants, with only a few amino acids changes from species to species.
...
Leafy plants such as spinach, broccoli, and duckweed, in fact provide protein containing all the essential amino acids in percentages meeting FAO standards. In order to achieve a fully nutritional state, seed protein often needs to be a mix of several sources; for example, the famous combination of sesame seeds (tahini) rich in methionine but poor in lysine, with chickpeas, rich in lysine but poor in methionine.
..."

Another advantage to leaves is a better ratio of fats - omega 6/omega 3. One is inflammatory, the other anti inflammatory. Both are needed for good heath and the ratio between them matters.

One of the downsides to leaves compared to seeds is the moisture content at harvest. Another is the antinutrient, oxalate; seeds also have antinutrients but they do not all have the same one. Another downside to leaves is they vary in metals according to the soil composition where seeds don't vary much. This can also be an upside to the leaves, depending on the soil.

Vitamins vary more in both seeds and leaves.

Edit to add:
The above covers some of the best known nutrients: proteins, fats, carbohydrates, calories, and vitamin and mineral levels. It doesn't cover the array of polyphenols, flavonoids, and antioxidants that are clearly of great importance in promoting healthy growth and in preventing disease. This is to remember they exist; not to propose balancing them too. Although I had no intension of trying to figure out any of it until the genetic editing definition change ticked me off the day of the start of this thread.

 

[NotaRealFarmr]

Humans have been selectively breeding plants and animals for advantageous traits for thousands of years. We keep pushing for more product with less waste in less time. GMOs (or whatever we are calling them now) are just the next step in this. If we can force 1000 years of cross breeding by just modifying the genetics of a seed and result in a bigger, better and faster plant with no side effects from their consumption, why shouldn't we?

GMOs have been the big scary thing for some time as the enemy to "healthy eating", but the reality of the situation is that the alternative is starvation. With this absolutely ridiculous population we are trying to support on this rock, we NEED the ability to pump out even more food from our limited farms just to keep people fed.

The key is no side effects which are not the case. Hence why things are banned in EU that aren’t here. There’s absolutely no need as a result of limited farming capabilities. We are actually depressing the food supply due to an oversupply not the other way around. That may change with all the changes to laws governing fertilizers and what lands are being taken back in various countries so they can make way for massive swaths of solar panel farms. Genetic mutations have been shown in all kinds of other situations to be a cause for our genetic mutations. Also, there’s a difference between cross breeding plants and making changes that’s cause the fruit of those plants to be undesirable to pests, or grows with limited to no water. Big difference

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

You may not want a carnivorous fish. It will take ten times more primary production (plants and algae that grow through sunlight and nutrients) to make a pound of fish. You are jumping up one trophic level. Look for herbiverous fish like cyprinids (carp-like or minnow-like fish) that feed low on the food chain. Also, look into the Chinese systems that use a variety of carp species (bottom feeders, plankton feeders and larger plant feeders) to maxime production from a pond. Many of those cyprinids are common invasives now. Tilapia zilli is a good plant eater in warmer climates.

Warmouth are very good at being the only main fish in a bare system. In Florida, they’re often found in the hundreds in a pool the size of a small goldfish pond, often only sharing the pool with mosquitofish and no plants. They eat whatever fits in their mouth and will cannibalize each other. The sort of systems they live in don’t have complex food chains. Its just a muddy hole in the woods that was dry 2 months prior and the warmouth might be the only fish to make it in. They’ll reproduce and then stunt, making for a near infinite supply of small fish. Here’s an example of a small drain that’s full of warmouth. This pool had flowing water at the time I visited it but warmouth pools are often stagnant.

Strong winters may make this sort of system not practical. I do not know. I do not know how far north a warmouth can live. I bring them up simply as an example of a meaty fish that can live in small spaces with low oxygen and otherwise poor conditions.

 

[saysfaa]

Harvesting and drying duckweed

It has about 5% dry matter so realize it takes about 100 pounds of it to get 1 pound of duckweed dry enough to store without molding.

It clumps together, so it can take some effort to spread it thin enough to dry well.

It has very high surface to mass and no cuticle on the underside so dries quickly compared to other foods if it isn't too clumped together

When dry, it smells like good hay

How to harvest duckweed

• Skim it
• Take 1/4 to 1/3 of the total surface area of the duckweed patch per harvest
• Allow it to go through a full growth cycle before harvesting it again. During the growing season, this can take 2 or 3 days or 3 or 4 weeks depending on factors such as temperature, nutrients in the water, degree of shading, amount and condition of the duckweed left from previous harvests

How to dry and store duckweed

• Expect one to two days to dry in reasonably warm, dry weather
• Needs wind protection, very small and gets very lightweight as it dries
• Spread up to 1/2 inch thick in windrows
• On window screen
• An inch or couple of inches over catch trays or cloth
• Black catch trays decrease drying time; mulch fabric allows water through so is better than plastic for this
• Clear plastic [or glass, I would think] a couple if inches above the duckweed on the window screen can decrease drying time
• Beta carotene degrades in sunlight so consider drying it quickly or protecting it from direct sunlight
• Dry enough to store when crumbles between fingers.
• Feed up to 25% (dry weight) of poultry ration (no info given for why that percentage).

Not from the above source

Math of the amount to store for my flock
1/4 of the total feed
1/4 pound total feed per hen per day.
X 4 hens
= 1/4 pound per day
If feeding it all year: about 100 pounds
If feeding it for the winter only: about 50 pounds

100 pounds of fresh duckweed fills not more than 5 five-gallon pails.

Haven't yet found the volume per pound or 100s pound of dried duckweed

It can be ensiled

• Must be partially dried first, pressing doesn't remove water
• Must add some form of sugar such as molasses or sugar beet pulp
• Most sites I found give theories rather than experiences

 

[saysfaa]

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/11/12/3367
Raw Chickpea (Cicer arietinum L.) as a Substitute of Soybean Meal in Compound Feed for Broiler Chickens: Effects on Growth Performance, LIpid Metabolism, Fatty Acid Profile, Antioxidant Status, and Dietary Value of Muscles
by Anna Danek-Majewska, Malgorzata Kwiecien, Anna Winiarska-Meiczan, Malgorzata Haliniarz, and Agata Bielak
Published 2021

"...The basic high-protein feed used in poultry diets is soybean meal (SBM), which has an optimal protein composition, and low fiber content. Unfortunately, the constant rise in SBM prices .... An additional problem is the intended introduction of a ban on the import and distribution of feed containing genetically modified (GM) plants. Consumers often express concern over the potential threat posed by products obtained from animals receiving GM feed. ...Currently, Poland imports over 75–85% of feed protein.... In Poland, the undertaken measures are targeted at an approximately 50% reduction of the import of feed protein (SBM) through enhancement of the biological and functional value of vegetable protein derived from native raw materials. A possibility of partial substitution of SBM is ascribed to the use of legume seeds. In addition to raw or processed pea, lupine, or horse bean seeds, which have been investigated to assess their suitability for use in animal nutrition, the chickpea (Cicer arietinum L.) deserves attention. ...

Chickpea seeds have a high nutritional value, high protein content (16.7–30.6%), and ME (11.5–13.2 MJ/kg DM). .... Similar to other legumes, chickpea seeds contain many anti-nutritional factors (ANF)..., which impair nutrient absorption and exert a detrimental effect on animal growth and health ...As reported by [others], raw chickpea seeds (CPR) can be added to poultry diets at a level of 15–20% to achieve a positive effect on poultry growth and egg production. A higher level ... in the diet for broilers has been found to exert a negative effect on weight gain, feed intake, and feed conversion rates... The review showed that partial replacement... of SBM protein with CPR raw seed protein in the diets for male broilers gave inconclusive results. The discrepancies in the results may be caused by, for example, the level of supplementation, chickpea varieties, or the presence of anti-nutritional factors in the seeds, which may differ significantly between batches of the same legume material. Nevertheless, compared to other legumes (e.g., soybeans), chickpeas contain relatively small amounts of inhibitors...

The introduction of partial SBM CPR replacement in the above-mentioned studies started on the first day of the chicks’ lives. Due to the presence of anti-nutritive substances, we decided to use raw chickpea seeds only in the grower and finisher stages, at 50% of the protein level from both feeds. ...

The substitution of 50% of SBM with chickpeas as the main source of protein in the broiler chicken diets did not have a significant effect on the basic rearing parameters of the cocks, i.e., final body weight, IF, and FCR, on day 42...this study investigated the effect ... on the chemical composition, fatty acid profile, dietary value, and antioxidant status of breast and thigh muscles, as well as the antioxidant status in the serum, of Ross 308 male broilers....

The chickpea (Cicer arietinum L.) appears to be a suitable plant to be used in Poland

• the quality of its protein is comparable to that of SBM...
• a positive effect on the development of the skeletal system, improving overall bone development, bone strength, and spongy bone microarchitecture. Additionally, an interesting result of our research was the change in the level of collagen denaturation energy...
• no significant effect on the pH values
• 5.5% increase in the lightness parameter [color of the meat], still normal range
• an approximately 6% increase in crude ash content
• a 5.8% decline (p < 0.05) in the cholesterol content in the breast muscle measured 24 h after slaughter
• Significant differences were observed in the content of individual fatty acids
  - the breast meat of the CPR-fed chickens contained a lower level of cholesterol than the meat in the SBM group
  - The content and ratio of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids are considered the main determinants; the ratio was 10:1, which is recommended for broiler meat, and... not detrimental to the FA profile and consumer health
  - [I didn't understand the rest]
• no significant effect on the activity of the analyzed oxidative stress markers

The novelty of the present research is that it is the first study in Poland describing the effect of an alternative source of plant protein derived from native raw materials ... This offers an alternative to improve the quality and sales of chicken meat, in line with the global trend of consumption of functional food..."

 

[saysfaa]

Oh. At least don't feed it to young chicks. Maybe there is research on the effect of the anti nutrients on adult digestive systems.

Same authors, published July 2022
"Effect of Raw Chickpea in the Broiler Chicken Diet on Intestinal Histomorphology and Intestinal Microbial Populations...
[lots of explanation and data]
Conclusions
...The inclusion of CPR in the grower and finisher diet significantly disturbed metabolism and intestinal structure. Although CPR can be a cheap source of protein, this additive does not ensure proper development of the intestinal structure, in contrast to SBM-based diets."

Edit to add, Same authors, published September 2022
"Effect of soybean meal substitution with raw chickpea seeds on growth performance, selected carcass traits, blood parameters, and bone qualtiy in male broilers"
[lots of explanation and data]
Conclusions
...CPR can be used as an alternative protein source to partially replace SBM in ... balanced broiler chicken diets (up to 50%),... In addition, a beneficial effect on bone quality was noted... hematological and biochemical blood tests did not show a negative impact of the addition of raw chickpea seeds on the health of the broiler chickens....

 

[saysfaa]

Faba beans
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579120303977
"...In conclusion, there was no effect of either faba bean cultivar (Snowbird, Snowdrop, Tabasco) or increasing dietary inclusion level (5, 10, and 20%; 10, 20, and 30%; 15, 30, and 40% for the starter, grower, and finisher phases, respectively) on growth performance, carcass traits, or proportional yield of carcass components. Broiler producers can therefore feed the most aggressive of the 3 inclusion levels tested (15, 30, 40% for the starter, grower, finisher phase) and any of the 3 zero-tannin faba bean cultivars evaluated to maximize faba bean inclusion in broiler diets.

There was no effect on ADFI and there were only slight reductions in BW, ADG, G:F, slaughter WT, chilled carcass WT, and carcass dressing in broilers fed faba bean compared with those fed a wheat–SBM control diet. These differences were attributed to the greater extent of processing to produce SBM vs. feeding raw, merely rolled, faba bean that would be nullified if the cost of feeding locally grown faba bean was lower than that of imported SBM."

https://academic.oup.com/tas/article/5/3/txab094/6292146
"...seven different dietary regimens were fed...The control regimen was a wheat grain-soybean (SBM) based diet like what is commonly fed to broiler chickens in the commercial industry in Western Canada. [the others were various cultivars, quality, and rates of replacement of the soybean meal]....
In conclusion, the results of this experiment indicate that feeding frost damaged and(or) immature, low-quality faba bean, to the extent observed in this trial, did not negatively affect growth performance or carcass attributes of broiler chickens compared to feeding parent, certified seed quality of these faba bean cultivars (Snowbird, Snowdrop, and Fabelle)."

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/leg3.92
Faba bean produces plant-based protein that is nongenetically modified and nonallergenic (unlike soybean). Faba bean is well adapted to wet and cold agricultural environments...
Seed coat tannins reduce protein digestibility and add colour to seed coat fibre products. Although tannins are entirely in the seed coat and can easily be removed mechanically, dehulling brings an additional cost....
Snowbird, Snowdrop, Tobasco cultivars have zero tannins...

http://corn.agronomy.wisc.edu/Crops/Fababean.aspx
...The fababean does not possess any components toxic to animal or man. It is possible to feed the bean to all types of livestock or poultry provided it is cracked or crushed. No further processing is required. ...Studies indicate that the dry matter digestibility of fababeans is somewhat lower than soybean meal and solubility of the protein is also lower in fababeans as compared to soybean meal. The fiber is higher and fat lower in fababeans versus soybean meal. The fababean is about 25% protein [ranged from 27 to 32% in MN trials]., and is higher in energy than soybean. Most results suggest that substituting two parts of fababean for one part soybean and one part cereal grain....Fababean plants make high quality silage. Swathing should take place when the lowest seed pods begin blackening. The swath should be left to wilt for one to three days....
Growth habits: Fababeans are small-seeded relatives of the garden broad bean. The plant flowers profusely but only a small proportion of the flowers produce pods. The fababean is very cold hardy, but cannot take excessive heat during flowering.
Environmental requirements:
This annual legume grows best under cool, moist conditions. Hot, dry weather is injurious to the crop, so early planting is important...."

Edit to add: it does well north of where soybeans do well.