I need facts so that I can prove my chickens are pets

[cyriart]

Hello everyone. I just registered on here today and I'm hopeful my fellow chicken lovers can help me with my situation. I live in an HOA development and my 3 hens have been discovered. Before I purchased my chickens I read my CC and R's and it states that I am allowed to have a reasonable amount of backyard animals. The HOA is arguing that I have farm animals, I say that my chickens are pets. I'm reaching out to you all because I need some factual information about chickens so that I ccan build my defense. Does anyone know where I can find information on this topic, numbers, statistics ect.?? I spoke with Andrew Wordes on the phone today (he just won his court case today) and he believes that my cause is worth fighting for. If someone out there can point me in the right direction, my chickens and I would be forever grateful. Thanks. Cassie

 

[Judy]

Three hens strikes me as a reasonable amount of backyard animals. Does your HOA say you cannot have farm animals? Even if it doesn't, you can certainly argue that they are pets. Anyone in your HOA own a snake, rat, ferret, etc.? How about goldfish?

There is lots of info on BYC under the forum, local chicken laws and ordinances. People are fighting this and winning every day. Michigan has a "right to farm" law that would overrule your HOA restrictions. You could argue that this is a basic right of all Americans; this is my opinion; I would like the Michigan law to be federal law.

 

[#1California Chick]

Where do you live? It would be helpful to know if there are others in your area that have already fought this fight!!!

Good Luck!!

Oh and Welcome to BYC!!

 

[19hhbelgian]

Does anyone else in the development own a bird or 2? What's the difference other than the fact that yours can survive outside, and they are useful? (nobody get mad at that statement

I too have plenty of non-useful pets

)

 

[FrChuckW]

Aside from checking out the Chicken Laws forum on here, also check what your local city/county/state ordinances are pertaining to the keeping of fowl, particularly chickens.

Regardless of what the HOA says, they cannot enforce certain regulations that conflict with government ordinances already in place.

For example, they cannot say that HO's are allowed to let there dogs or cats run free and be unlicensed, with no vaccinations if the local government has already put in place ordinances regarding those issues.

Good Luck, and Welcome to BYC!

 

[Cetawin]

Okay having too many years experience with defending and representing HOA's...let me ask you these questions...


In your Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, what exactly does is say "backyard animals", "pets" or what is the exact language?

Does the Dec states that farm animals or livestock are not allowed?


As far as an argument as to a pet...

the term pet typically means a companion animal A monkey can be companion animal as can a mule.

By shear definition, according to the Webster Mirriam dictionary a pet is defined as

a domesticated animal kept for pleasure rather than utility


We all know what a backyard is so we move to the definition of "animal"

1: any of a kingdom (Animalia) of living things including many-celled organisms and often many of the single-celled ones (as protozoans) that typically differ from plants in having cells without cellulose walls, in lacking chlorophyll and the capacity for photosynthesis, in requiring more complex food materials (as proteins), in being organized to a greater degree of complexity, and in having the capacity for spontaneous movement and rapid motor responses to stimulation

That defines a chicken without a doubt.

I used to write those declarations all 100's of pages of them for master associations and sub or neighbor associations under them. It will boil down to the exact language in the declaration. If the language cannot prohibit the chickens be warned...the HOA members can...if a change to the Dec is proposed, a meeting called, votes taken, your neighbors and those in the community could outlaw your hens with a pen stroke. So handling the matter with kid gloves is of utmost importance.

In the meantime, can the three ladies reside in the garage for the time being with some supervised outdoor time? Make sure your coop is spotless inside and out, no smell whatsoever because an inspection will follow at some point during all of this.

Let me think on it after some sleep and I am sure I can come up with more fire power for you...just let me know exactly what that dec says regading pets, animals, outbuildings, undesirable odors from your property, noise and unsightly structures. at least if i know what they say exactly on those issues I can help you block those roads before they get there.


for Future reference ... NEVER BUY ANYTHING IF AN HOA IS INVOLVED.

FrChuckW stated: Regardless of what the HOA says, they cannot enforce certain regulations that conflict with government ordinances already in place.

For example, they cannot say that HO's are allowed to let there dogs or cats run free and be unlicensed, with no vaccinations if the local government has already put in place ordinances regarding those issues.

That is not necessarily correct. It depends on the community, the state and also whether the community is governed by a master association and is behind a fenced or walled perimeter. Within an enclosed perimeter...the Decs are law with regard to MOST rules they set up.


For example...the law allows parallel parking on the right side of roadways in front of homes and businesses...an HOA can prohibit parking cars on the street period. You park there, they have you towed and you pay to get your car back...they can also lien your home for violations, correcting the violations and the cost thereof and foreclose on your home. I have filed those suits for cases that had $32 in quartlery HOA dues not paid. They can be a PITA


P.S. and afterthought...gather the info for your city and county and state laws regarding chickens...know what you are up against across the board​

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Regardless of what the HOA says, they cannot enforce certain regulations that conflict with government ordinances already in place.

For example, they cannot say that HO's are allowed to let there dogs or cats run free and be unlicensed, with no vaccinations if the local government has already put in place ordinances regarding those issues.

HOAs can be more restrictive than local, state or Federal laws, byt they cannot be less. To turn the above example around, it the local ordinances do not prohibit you from letting your pets run free, the HOA can.

As Cetawin says, it all depends on how your CC&Rs are worded. And you need to know how difficult or easy it is to make changes to both the CC&Rs and association rules.​

 

[MysticScorpio82]

Quote:
I agree whole heartedly! I wonder how we could start the process of making a federal law....

 

[orcasislandchickens]

In order for them to be considered pets, you should be treating them as pets. I know this sounds obvious, but I was having trouble here too. One of the big concerns of my neighborhood was whether my chickens would be seen as a negative if they decided to sell.

When several of the more influential neighbors visited and found the yard and coop spotlessly clean and attractive and the hens freindly and quiet, my problems went away.

 

[Bluemoon420]

Quote:
I agree whole heartedly! I wonder how we could start the process of making a federal law....

Yeah, The HOA's in MI can't mess with the RTFA. I have a few stories about that too

I personally would never buy a house with a HOA. I would probably drive them nuts as well

I just couldn't take someone telling me what color my house had to be, what kind of fence to have, what kind of plants I could or could not have...It would drive me nuts.
I think you should fight for your right to keep your chickens. I would think 3 hens is a reasonable amount, and maybe suggestion to them that you promise not to have any roosters. I swear I found a web page that had chicken facts you could produce for them to read. I'll see if I can find that web page again. It was awhile ago.

Bluemoon