I need some advice on a pooch test on my pygmy and saanen i have pics

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by coo coo cachoo, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. coo coo cachoo

    coo coo cachoo Out Of The Brooder

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    I have 2 goats a pygmy and a saanen both female and i have a pgymy male they have been running together for at least 5 mnths but dont know if they are prego , i am pretty sure that the pygmy is prego but the saanen not for sure , now i have been reading the comments and looking at the pics for the answer on the pooch test i just need someone to confirm it to me ... i will be posting pics soon ...
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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
  2. The Wolf Queen

    The Wolf Queen Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Could someone explain to me what a "Pooch Test" is? OP I hope you get the answer your looking for [​IMG].
     
  3. zzGypsy

    zzGypsy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Wolf: when a doe or ewe is close to kidding/lambing the girl-parts puff up, expand, pooch out... at least that's what's supposed to happen. sadly, not all ewes/does read the instruction manual, so it can be tough on us figuring out the bred/not bred, near kidding/ not-near kidding thing.

    I've had does that puffed up weeks before kidding, and some that show that for less than a day, so it's a good indicator that you're in the neighborhood, but not very precise.

    coo coo: I don't see any of these does looking like they're ready to kid, but that doesn't mean they are or are not preggers. they could just be sneaky. if they've been away from the buck for 5.5 months or more, I'm guessing not bred. if they're still running with the buck, well, I've had sheep breed as late as the first half of february. occasionally we've had does/ewes breed off-season, so as long as they're running with the buck, you've got continued breeding opportunity. my Lamancha goats appear to be fertile myrtles and breed the moment they think about going into heat in late summer. they've almost all kidded for the season already (started middle of december, and we've got 7 healty kids on the ground, lost 2, and have 2 does to go.)

    how old is your buck? is he a proven breeder? it can be hard to tell on some goats that they're bred up until the last month, and I've got a couple Lamanchas that *never* look bred, even though they produce kids. my pygmies do generally get double-wide if they're bred though, at least in the last month or so... I'm not seeing any late-term pregnancies in your group, but I might not be able to tell from these photos. if your buck is young, it's possible he wasn't ready to get the job done until later, and your girls may or may not still be cycling if they're not bred.

    I had late kids on my pygmies this summer, so I didn't put the buck in with them until the beginning of december, I know at least one of them was still cycling because he went right to work... he was 5 months when he went in. most bucks can work at that age, but not all.
     
  4. coo coo cachoo

    coo coo cachoo Out Of The Brooder

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    ok so my buck is about 9 mnths i dont know if he is a proven breeder i just bought him in sept. my pygmy is about 10 mnths and my saanen is 1 yr old , they have been with him since i bought him in sept. they all run around together , and with my saanen i don't know if my pygmy male can reach her what should i do?
    we want to start our milking program soon. We total thought our pygmy was going to give birth any day we did that thing with the pinching the end of the tail to see if the ligaments were loose and they are i can almost put my fingers around the spine a lot more loose then the saanen , also my pygmys udders seem to be getting a litter bigger , so what pics would help you better determine if they are prego? i appreciate any and all the info you give thanks for your time .
     
  5. zzGypsy

    zzGypsy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:ok, so if your goats are just now 10 months and a year, I do hope they're *not* ready to drop kids any day! we generally don't put goat does in to breed until they're a year, and if they're small framed or late growers, until they're at least 18 months. it's a lot to ask of a goat to have to grow a baby when they're not done growing up themselves yet. in addition, bucks may be ready to breed as early as 4 months, but does often take a bit longer to start cycling. they may have started at 6 months, or earlier or later... hard to know unless you're paying reeeealy close attention.

    that said, it's possible they're bred, but not near end of term, so you'll just have to keep an eye out for the signs of impending kids. being first timers, they may not give clear clues (of course, they may not anyway... [​IMG] ).

    photos of their udders, a side view, a top view will help to identify what's what, we still may not be able to tell... some are just like that... but we can try.

    bagging up can happen from a month or more before kidding to 12 hours after kidding... I've got one we start milking 3 weeks or a month before she kids because she bags up so early... it's a clue that you're in the neighborhood though.

    pooching is good evidence, but I don't see it on these goats yet.

    it's possible your goats weren't mature enough to start cycling this year before the breeding season ended... I don't know if your goats are year-round breeders or not.

    as to starting your milking program - the only way to know for sure with field-bred goats without an untrasound is wait. with controlled breeding goats (put in with the buck for a known 30 or 60 day period) you can know the date range for kids, and if you don't have kids in that window, you know they didn't get bred. or you can buy in-milk nannies who've already kidded. other than that? well, it takes 5 months to make kids, so you'll have kids 5 months after they bred, and can start milking sometime after that.

    what's your plan for raising the kids? are you keeping the kids on? pulling them and bottle feeding powdered milk replacer? milk-sharing with the kid?

    we give the first 2-4 weeks of milk to the kid - they stay with the momma and we don't milk. once they're well established, if the mom has excess milk capacity she's not using, we start milk sharing (kids are separated from moms overnight in a small pen in their night barn and we milk in the morning. then the kid goes in with the mom for the day). once the kids are well grown (2-3 months) we wean and we get all the milk. any late bloomers might be weaned later. we find this program makes for well grown healthy kids, and we're getting more than enough milk for our own use this way. if we were working as a commercial dairy, we'd probably do this differently. some folks give the kids 1-2 days of colostrum on the nanny, then switch them to 100% bottle feeding so they can have all the milk. I haven't been pleased with the quality of the kids that were raised this way (we bought some as part of a herd purchase) so even if we were wanting maximum production from the does, I think I'd still give the kids at least the first 30 days before weaning.

    ETA: we do have a couple of very high produciton does... those we milk from day one, even though we're leaving the kid on full time because they simply make so much more milk than the kids can drink. if we didn't milk these, they'd have udder damage from overproduction.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011
  6. The Wolf Queen

    The Wolf Queen Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Maybe with my, hopefully, up coming kids instead of working on socialization first Ill teach them to read [​IMG].

    OP pygmies tend to have problems freshening sometimes. Like gypsy said its a lot if your still growing, especially when your a mini breed. With pygmies its definitely better to breed them at 18+ months. With other breeds of goats that are big breeds ive heard its OK to breed them, either, after a year or after they hit 80lbs. Pics of different angles could definitely help everyone guess whether or not their prego.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  7. zzGypsy

    zzGypsy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:[​IMG]
    excellent idea! [​IMG]

    I'd forgotten to mention the issues with pigmys kidding... we've only got 4 in our herd, and the're all mature moms with multiple births to their record and a history of easy kidding, and we haven't had any trouble. but it's definintely a thing to be concerned about. I've had to help pull kids on other pygmies.
    on my full size goats I've only had to pull one, and that's because he should have been tripplets he was so big... head the size of a 4-month old goat! that same doe gave me twins this year the size of singles...
     
  8. The Wolf Queen

    The Wolf Queen Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:[​IMG]
    excellent idea! [​IMG]

    WQ says: Why thank you. I need to find a smiley that does a stage bow lol.


    I'd forgotten to mention the issues with pigmys kidding... we've only got 4 in our herd, and the're all mature moms with multiple births to their record and a history of easy kidding, and we haven't had any trouble. but it's definintely a thing to be concerned about. I've had to help pull kids on other pygmies.
    on my full size goats I've only had to pull one, and that's because he should have been triplets he was so big... head the size of a 4-month old goat!
    WQ says: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    that same doe gave me twins this year the size of singles...
    WQ says: [​IMG]
     
  9. zzGypsy

    zzGypsy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:
    yeah, she's an overachiever, that one. [​IMG]
     
  10. The Wolf Queen

    The Wolf Queen Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Quote:
    yeah, she's an overachiever, that one. [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG] lol.
     

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