I think I found a miracle cure for feather picking

[Debbz]

If you're concerned about adding protein, pre or postbiotics or any other worry, try adding a small amount of dolomite into the morning mash. Yes, the same dolomite as you would add to the garden.

This has proven in Australia to stop feather picking dead in its tracks with no adverse effects.

May I suggest a control group of feather pickers be feed good organic feed plus dolomite and the other group the FORCO product. I bet that both groups will exhibit the same results.

Linz

Wow, thanks Olchook! Dolomite is a natural magnesium source that lowers acidity. Makes sense. Maybe this is 'miracle' number 2.

 

[Mavrik]

That is why we have the FDA, so professionals with the proper means and a large information base, can properly test this stuff. Amateur flock owners have no way of knowing if something fed to the flock has adverse effects on animals or people. Will little Johnny get cancer after eating eggs from an additive? Will a chicken live 5 instead of 12 years? These are just a couple of things a backyard flock owner can't answer.

One should never give dairy products to avian's, they can't properly digest them. A chicken will also eat rat poison and "enjoy" that too.

Why are some of you so hard set on doing anything else but giving your chickens the proper diet? Feathers contain protein, that is why chickens eat them.

Here is an idea for a free protein boost: Set up a bug zapper in your run at night, in the morning your crew will have a bounty of moths to dine on. Make sure to use a quality zapper with a florescent lure lamp. (cheap units plug up)

 

[ShakeragSusan]

Last time I checked the FDA had allowed many items into our food (aspartame, anyone?) that turned out not to be safe. I think I'll not put my trust in the FDA. Of course, you all are entitled to if you so choose.

I'll be trying FORCO for my guineas to see if it alleviates a problem with repeated shell-less eggs and for my elderly housecat to see if she re-grows hair on her ears. Yes, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[equius]

OK, here I go again:

FireTigeris

A pretty logical question, if you read carefully it says the fungal cultures and digestive enzymes are used in the production of Forco, perhaps we could make that a little clearer. Fungal cultures excrete prolific quantities of cellulite and other enzymes that are used in Forco. The excreted products are what is used in Forco not the fungal culture or the medium it grows on, which are separated from the excreted cellulite and other products which are actually used in Forco. Did I say that clearly enough, sometimes late at night I'm a little fuzzy?

Mavrik

I wouldn't accuse you of of selectively representing the FDA's position of animal feeds but I think you didn't read far enough and/or misinterpreted what you found.

First of all I don't know where you got the idea Forco has been "tested and approved for horses and bulls" it hasn't been tested and approved by the FDA for anything, it doesn't need to be. Animal feeds are not approved by the FDA. If you add a medicine to the feed that medicine has to be approved by the FDA not the feed itself. Further, you can't make claims on the label the FDA thinks are untrue or deceptive.

The only time the FDA gets involved in a specific animal of human food is if someone or a whole lot of somethings die.
I looked at feed labels all over the internet and in my local feed store and couldn't find one that was approved by the FDA, not one. Mavrik, I suggest you look at one of your feed bags and tell me if it has FDA approval.

The FDA has decided the Asenic is not a great addition to poultry feed but has failed to ban it while one drug, Roxarsone is being phased out. But the drug Histostat is still on the market and is used in poultry feeds, the ever vigilant FDA requires it be withdrawn from birds five days before slaughter. Of course under the watchful eye of the ever vigilant FDA which is of course "why we have the FDA, so professionals with the proper means and a large information base, can properly test this stuff". The "FDA said the levels found in their poultry study are low enough that consumers are not at risk eating poultry while Roxarsone is phased out of use in the United States"

I'm a little skeptical that any level or Arsenic is safe. Betcha little Johnny has a better chance of being harmed by Arsenic than Forco.

Mavrik, if you don't live in Maryland there's a pretty good chance that chicken feed is sold in your state could contain one of these two drugs.

See the the excerpt below.
Maryland First State to Ban Arsenic in Poultry Feed

by Helena Bottemiller | May 23, 2012
Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley Tuesday signed a bill banning arsenic in poultry feed, making his state the first to have a law against the practice on the books.

The new law, which takes effect Jan 1, prohibits the use, sale, or distribution of commercial feed containing arsenic and specifically mentions two Pfizer drugs that contain arsenic: Roxarsone, which the company voluntarily withdrew from the market last year, and Histostat, which is still on the market.

The move follows a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) study released last summer that found increased levels of inorganic arsenic in the livers of chickens treated with the Roxarsone. The new data raised concerns of a "very low but completely avoidable exposure to a carcinogen," said Michael Taylor, FDA's Deputy Commissioner for Foods, when FDA announced the company was withdrawing the drug in response to the study's findings.

Arsenic is a known human carcinogen and has been linked to a variety of health concerns, including interfering in fetal development, but FDA said the levels found in their poultry study are low enough that consumers are not at risk eating poultry while Roxarsone is phased out of use in the United States.

If you go to http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/FDAVeterinarianNewsletter/ucm235765.htm You will find in the animal feed section the following:

Animal Feed – The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act requires food for both people and animals to be:

• safe;
• produced under sanitary conditions; and
• truthfully labeled.

Animal feed includes pet food and pet treats, as well as feed for food-producing animals, such as cattle, pigs, chickens, and farmed-raised fish. Unlike animal drugs, animal feed does not have to be approved by FDA before it can be marketed. However, FDA makes sure the ingredients in the feed are safe and have an appropriate function, and many ingredients must be approved by FDA before they can be used in animal feed. FDA also evaluates the human food safety aspect of animal feed for food-producing animals. That is, FDA makes sure it’s safe for people to eat food products made from animals that ate the feed.

You will note is says "Unlike animal drugs, animal feed does not have to be approved by FDA before it can be marketed." It also says the FDA makes sure the ingredients are safe and it's safe for people to eat the food made from animals that ate the feed. If you believe that happens from a practical standpoint you probably also believe in the the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus. There is no way the FDA has enough people to go around to every grain elevator, grain mill and food processing facility. The FDA responds to problems where something dies, or gets real sick, and that's what they should do.

Just as an aside, there is only one chemical free grain mill in the United States and that's the Dynamite mill in Meridian Idaho. Unfortunately I don't believe they make poultry feed.

As another aside, blood meal and bone meal are often used as a protein source in poultry feed which has the remote possibility of transmitting bovine spongiform encephalopathy or mad cow disease.

I think it's pretty easy to be overly fearful of most everything in our lives. If we eat only organic, or only organic vegetarian we still run the risk of salmonella and a myriad of other diseases, conditions and opportunity's for injury. Come on, get up get out take a chance. If you don't want to take a chance on Forco that's ok, but someday all your chickens will die and someday all of us will die, it has always given me great comfort that "life is a sexually transmitted condition that's 100% fatal". God, lets live a little.

Thanks for the soap box.

Jim Rea

 

[7L Farm]

That is why we have the FDA, so professionals with the proper means and a large information base, can properly test this stuff. Amateur flock owners have no way of knowing if something fed to the flock has adverse effects on animals or people. Will little Johnny get cancer after eating eggs from an additive? Will a chicken live 5 instead of 12 years? These are just a couple of things a backyard flock owner can't answer.

One should never give dairy products to avian's, they can't properly digest them. A chicken will also eat rat poison and "enjoy" that too.

Why are some of you so hard set on doing anything else but giving your chickens the proper diet? Feathers contain protein, that is why chickens eat them.

Here is an idea for a free protein boost: Set up a bug zapper in your run at night, in the morning your crew will have a bounty of moths to dine on. Make sure to use a quality zapper with a florescent lure lamp. (cheap units plug up)

Been doing this for a few years. Chickens wake up auto pop door goes up. Breakfast is served.

 

[chickiemomy]

I second all this -- not about forco specifically - but about additives, pesticides & other comments in general. For example, when I hear people claiming 'organic' is better - I say "e. coli & salmonella are organic -- and not good for you, but chlorine bleach is NOT organic and will, in the proper dosage, kill those harmful organisms without hurting you. In fact I doubt there is any public water source that does not use non-organic chlorine bleach to control unwanted, unhealthful organisms, organisms which ravage less developed societies." Culturally, we are suffering from the backlash, and the pendulum has swung too far, IMHO, from "Silent Spring".

I took a class in "Toxic Chemicals in the Environment" in college. The most informative, useful class I took. The medical doctor, instructor, said herbicides, in general, are pretty boring as a danger to people. Cigarettes, and second-hand smoke on the other hand, kill people every day - yet are legal. (Paraquat, an extremely dangerous herbicide, is an exception to the previous herbicide statement. And Agent Orange - one of the pesticides used in that concoction, had as a side component of its manufacture, dioxin, which is a known carcinogen). I don't understand people upset with the use of the various BT's which are extremely safe to people and animals, and can target, due to composition, and timing of spray, various INTRODUCED parasites killing forests, leading to forest fires, or infecting and ruining crops (anyone remember Mediterranean fruit fly in California?).

I know we aren't talking about herbicides here - but that is a larger base of knowledge for me than pre, or pro biotics -- and I believe some of the rationale and arguments stated here about folco are similar to those I've heard about organic vs non-organic.

Yes we should be vigilant, yes we should read & not take anything for granted, yes we should be skeptical when someone has a financial motivation for what they say (what about the big feed companies - does Purina or Nutura have something to gain if you think they are the only answer to the health of your flock???) - use your own judgment, best as you can, to make decisions regarding your own health, diet, etc. But please refrain from the generic fear-mongering - it's not productive.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[equius]

Great post Chickiemomy!

Jim Rea

 

[Debbz]

Chickiemomy, your points are noted. Now if I may speak plainly too...

It seems to me very odd that any company wouldn't package up this product as chicken supplement after all their reassurances of it being safe and effective for the purpose. What's the problem with doing that, and hugely increasing sales in the process? It makes me wonder if the encouragement given to people here to use it on their layers is just a cheap way to collect some anecdotal evidence to support its use with chickens, without any expense or responsibility being taken by the company for running their own proper controlled trials on it.

Again, just my opinion, but IF that's what is happening here, then the least Forco could do is to offer the product FREE to members here to trial under Forco's directions, with appropriate disclaimers being made by them, and with the information gleaned being potentially financially beneficial to them as a trial, on their way to repackaging and re-branding it as a legitimate poultry product.

I'm astonished that it seems to be okay in the U.S. for a company to be so publicly promoting off-label use of any product involving eggs and chickens for human consumption. If this public online discussion was occurring about an Australian product of similar type, the ACCC (Australian Competition and Consumer Commission) would be right onto it by now.

And in case the price lists and places to purchase are repeated again, it could pay to keep this in mind -
BYC Rule # 7 - Advertising Abuse
Do not advertise your products or services outside of the appropriate areas of the forum or too frequently. (25 penalty points)

And that's my 2c worth.

 

[azygous]

Whoa! Debbz! What on earth has given you the idea that this is all Forco's doing? Have you read this entire thread, beginning with how I stumbled on the idea of trying Forco for my feather-eaters?

This thread has had the professional input by a Forco representative, Jim Rea, because I asked him to respond to the thread and provide answers to questions that I didn't know. People raised legitimate points that deserved answers, and Jim, being approachable and responsive, agreed to participate in this thread to provide expert responses to questions we all had about his product.

I'm not associated with Forco in any way, and I stipulated that right at the start. This is NOT an advertisement for Forco. It's merely exploring the use of this product for an "off-label" purpose. It's seemed to work for the problems I've been having, and I wanted to share it with others who may be experiencing such problems that have defied solution.

And this is the USA. We use products all the time for purposes other than what they've been originally been designated. There's no law against it as far as I know. As for Forco "publicly promoting off-label use", they are doing no such thing, I assure you. That is something you have come up with out of your own wild imagination.

Let's stick to the original intent of this thread and not venture so far out into the weeds. Please.

 

[KathyJB]

Last time I checked the FDA had allowed many items into our food (aspartame, anyone?) that turned out not to be safe. I think I'll not put my trust in the FDA. Of course, you all are entitled to if you so choose.

I'll be trying FORCO for my guineas to see if it alleviates a problem with repeated shell-less eggs and for my elderly housecat to see if she re-grows hair on her ears. Yes, I'll let you know how it goes.

I still see aspartame in items like gum and drinks. Nasty stuff. That is why I don't chew gum anymore.