Icelandic Chickens

[Icelander]

Thank you Red for clarifying, I think we are being curious about exactly the same thing.

Kathy thank you for all the explanations regarding genetics, I truly appreciate it, you clearly know much about the mechanics of genetics. I think we all agree that a mutation happened and I don't think we are that concerned on how the mutation happens, i.e. the genetic mechanics of it, but rather, moving beyond the mechanics, why (if location is irrelevant) it seems to be happening in the US only, and if it started with one individual that then spread it around or if it is continually happening.

I also think it is a little bit confusing to say the trait is inheritable but then say cross-breeding has nothing to do with it. Clearly, cross-breeding has everything to do with introducing new genetic material into a breed, including mutated genes, if they are not already there. I am interested in knowing how cross-breeding has been ruled out definitively.

Does anyone have answers to these questions?

 

[NotAFarm]

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[Hangtown Farms]

I do not think it is possible to bring in eggs from another country. I was trying to read up on it awhile back and made my head hurt....

We are far to regulated for the average person to make this happen

 

[Icelander]

Please explain exactly how you were able to "get hatching eggs directly from Iceland to establish" your flock. Many of us would be interested in doing this.

Why beat around the bush, just say that you feel there has been crossbreeding?

Finally, you came right out and said it. Whose bubble do you feel you are bursting?

So, are you saying that the only pure birds in the United States of America are your birds?

Thank you for the questions, although I am baffled as to the tone they are presented in:

- I did not handle the importation myself so I don't have the details. Suffice to say it helps knowing people on the other side that are willing to put time in to helping you. I am afraid I don't have any advice on how to acquire an Icelandic family and friends beyond the traditional method.

- I am asking about cross-breeding and genetics because I don't know. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I can't tell if there has been cross-breeding and I tend to trust people unless given a reason not to. Genetic purity has been proclaimed as paramount to this group, I would think it should be eager to have open discussions about it. But I do honestly think it is odd this fray issue has only come up in the U.S., but I am not saying there couldn't be a perfectly reasonable explanation. I would just like to now exactly what that reasonable explanation is.

- Not whose bubble, but what bubble. The bubble that this "fray" hasn't turned into a whack-a-mole issue that puts newbies off that come here by way of Google and see this popping up time and again without solid answers. I am first and foremost interested in preserving the breed, the more that have pure Icies the better, and if we can avoid having this put people off the birds by providing clear answers, we should do our best to do that. I don't have that answer, but I would like to, hence I am here.

- As I understand it there have been several imports of pure Icelandic birds that are in the hands of competent responsible breeders and there is no reason to think they are not pure. I have hatched a grand total of 9 birds (5 which are in my backyard) that were brought to me directly from Hlésey in Iceland and am not in the business of selling eggs or chicks, so I have no stake in trying to convince anyone anything about my birds. I just want more people to want these birds and I'd like to understand how this "fray" gene is spreading and why it is not happening in Iceland. I don't think these are unreasonable questions.

 

[kathyinmo]

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[Hangtown Farms]

One thing though Icelander.. Looked at some of your pictures.
you do have a nice flock.

 

[redchicken9]

As an outsider to the group, this is beginning to kill me. Frankly, all you people with frayed icelandics that have continued to hatch and sell them are the ones spreading this "mutation". I'm glad some are starting their flock again. If the mutation is dominantly, or only, in the US, then those involved need to cull, not breed, or import lines. I like this bird, I do not have it, I may never have it. It's clear that it hasn't always been imported with regulatory diligence (no surprise). Right now in the US it appears that many lines have this issue and little has been done to stop breeding these lines and not to mention that there could be outcrossed birds (who is going to pay for genetic testing to determine this, anyway). The real issue is if fray is bad, you folks need to work harder on removing fray. Uggh!

 

[kathyinmo]

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[NotAFarm]

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[Icelander]

Maybe this example will help you understand. Let's say YOU developed diabetes, and you did not get it from your parents or family. (No family of yours has it). Is that because you are in the USA, and not in Iceland now? NO...... let's call it ..................... A MUTATION ! ! !

You see? There is NO reason, except that your genes have mutated! IT HAPPENS!

Let's say the same thing happens to your wife. You both now have "the gene." You can then produce diabetic children, or at least children with the diabetic gene (carriers).

Does it have anything to do with location? NO. Cross-breeding? NO It just happens! You both just happen to have "the gene."

Kathy, thank you, but repeating one answer is not answering all the questions. You are saying these mutations are "just happening" (fair enough) and that they are random and have nothing to do with location. But they do have something to do with location because they are all happening in the U.S. If they had nothing to do with location they would be happening regardless of location, i.e. wherever Icelandic birds are. But seem not to be. It is like if redheads were getting diabetes, but only when they are living in Blackacre.

(Note: I am assuming these are multiple occurrences of mutations since you say "assume the same thing happens to your wife").

So, just one question (the original one):

Why are all these mutations happening in the U.S. only?