illegal to buy light bulbs...

[mom'sfolly]

Rebel,

I can't imagine how horrible working that crash was.

In the newspaper here, they seem to make a point of listing who was wearing seat belts or not in all injury accidents. It is easy to see which ones are fatal. I routinely use this as a lesson for my kids.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Yea, I had to walk away to puke several time on that one..... I was driving the identical truck at the time.... The driver an an 18 year old were the only adults. Everyone else was 14 or younger all the way down to a newborn. Worked a lot of bad ones over the years but when its kids its hard.

 

[nonseq]

I served on a jury once. For a civil case. The plaintiff was not wearing her seatbelt. That played into our decision regarding her damages award. We felt she would not have bonked her head on the windshield if she had been wearing her seatbelt.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
The song's not pro anything...it's simply a telling of how things were in the Tennessee Valley in the 20's, 30's, and 40's.

If you want to take the "Mr. Roosevelt's gonna save us all" as a sarcastic remark, fine, but the fact of the matter is that's how people felt at the time. That's evidenced by the fact that he was elected in a landslide four times in a row. And there's only one mention of the TVA, and it comes directly before the line "they bought a washing machine and a Chevrolet." If you wanna take that as some kind of a slap at the TVA, well...OK, but lots of people lost their farms because "the cotton was short and the weeds were tall" and "mama got sick," etc. Had it not been for jobs with the TVA and all the new industry the TVA brought to the area by providing incredible amounts of cheap electricity, those people would have almost certainly starves to death or died of some terrible disease. What actually DID happen, though -- in droves -- is that instead of being homeless and starving to death, folks took those steady TVA jobs, bought houses in town, and got themselves washing machines and Chevrolets.

I know it's really, really easy for us to view a life in town with a washing machine and a Chevrolet as rather...pedestrian, I guess...because today, people who can afford to live out in the country on a big farm are usually doing pretty well for themselves. That's just not how it was at the time, though.

I love my farm, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't have it any other way because I don't like living in town...it doesn't suit me. But I gotta tell ya that if "being on a farm" meant being a dirt-poor sharecropper trying to work miracles on failing dirt while my wife was sick and I couldn't afford to pay the rent and buy medicine in the same month, uhhh...yeah, no thanks. I'd take that steady TVA job in a heartbeat and leave the dirt behind, buy us a washing machine and a Chevrolet, and I'd do it all without "looking back again," too.. Maybe I'd miss it sometimes, but hey...that's when I'd just take a big bite of sweet potato pie -- an indulgence that I could never have afforded before -- and I'd shut my mouth.

That's what the song's about, my friend.. You take it however you want, but understand that you're viewing it through a very different lens than folks of the time, and at least consider the possibility that you're putting your own personal political views on top of all that.. I'm just sayin'..

And, FWIW, I grew up in East Kentucky. You guys had love/hate relationships with TVA and the government...we had the same thing with private coal companies. Y'all picked cotton and never got rich...we mined coal and never got rich. Someone did, though, in both cases.. And had it not been for the coal companies and the jobs they created, who knows what would have happened, and people of the area understand and appreciate that aspect of the coal companies...but at the same time, coal companies put the screws to a whole lot of people, and they're largely reviled for it. So, believe me, I get it..

 

[Orchid]

From lightbulbs to the interpretation of song lyrics. This has been a fascinating thread so far!

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

People in the citys Im sure loved TVA but out in the country where the land was being taken, they were not getting the benefits from it. I talk to a lot of people that were around back then an haven't found anyone that was saved by it. Not much cotton was grown around here. Farmers were growing food for there familys. They weren't really buying or selling much so to them there was no effect from the stock marked crash. They came in an forced people off there land that was thriving. All they wanted was bottom land. The stuff that just so happen to produce the best. Then job were created for people in Chattanooga an bigger citys. Not out here. The the power ya say it gave us went to Atlanta an Chattanooga. I can drive to two different dams in 15 minutes but my house was one of the first to be built with the new power, phone an water that had just been brought in around 1960. Some of my family still used wood, lamps, a well an a outhouse till the eightys when it finally got around to them. An to this day I only know one person that has ever had a TVA job. As for coal mines, Being as I live in a community called Cole City I know a bit about there history to. Unlike the government the coal companys came in an paid good money for the land they wanted an an people had an option to sell or not. Many people sold but most did not. They then created jobs around them not off somewhere else. The coal companys were not saints but they did not just come in an take what they wanted to give to people elsewhere like the government did.


An the reality of the voting system to this day is that people with money usually vote an people without dont. Also people in the city are more likely to vote than people in the country.

Farmers out in the country didn't usually take the day off to walk 5 miles to vote an walk back. Just like today its hard for me to turn loose an go vote even though I can drive those same 5 miles. So saying that you know what people thought by the vote is not accurate. You know what people in the citys an people that had enough money to take a day off to vote thought. Sure people in the citys were voting that way, they had power, jobs an money an most didnt have to loose anything to get it. The people that lost usually didnt get anything out of it. An most of the farmers never saw ether side because they were to busy working there farms. Even today you will never get a fair vote till you make election day a holiday that factorys have to take off. As any factory workers an see how many feel like they have the time to go vote.

Sure, we see all of this stuff as good now because we have it an its not costing us anything for it to be there but to say that people thought is was good back then is not accurate. People that were gaining things liked it an people that were losing things didnt. I also dont think the people in the middle thought very much of it ether. I get to fish in a lake knowing there is what use to be a thriving town that my grandmother used to go to dances at 30 feet under my boat. I can look in to a flooded cave that use to be a stage. Just because I like to fish dont make forcing all those people off there land right. Remember history is not really history its the spin of what really happened given to the world by the people in power after the fact. It would be like saying the natives were happy with us because it turned out for the good of the majority.

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
Ok, well...I don't mean to imply anything here, but simple mathematics and human longevity pretty much dictates that people who were adults around the period of time discussed in that song are most likely dead by now. If you were, say, 22 in 1932, you were born in 1910...so you'd be 100. Do you really talk to "a lot" of centenarians?

Not much cotton was grown around here. Farmers were growing food for there familys. They weren't really buying or selling much so to them there was no effect from the stock marked crash. They came in an forced people off there land that was thriving. All they wanted was bottom land. The stuff that just so happen to produce the best.

Thriving? Google the word "dustbowl" and see if that has any impact on your view of farming in the 1930s..

Then job were created for people in Chattanooga an bigger citys. Not out here. The the power ya say it gave us went to Atlanta an Chattanooga. I can drive to two different dams in 15 minutes but my house was one of the first to be built with the new power, phone an water that had just been brought in around 1960.

That's weird, because the teeny little city of Alcoa went from nothing to a booming industrial town in short order on account of TVA power.. Towns like Chattanooga, Knoxville, Alcoa, etc all swelled in population during that period of time.. You can say that those jobs were created for people "in the cities," but what you're obviously failing to consider is where those people came from.

(The answer is "they were ex-sharecroppers from the sticks," by the way.)

Also, tell me how it can be that the REA created 400+ rural electric coops and powered almost 300,000 households in rural areas in four years -- yet, nobody got power out in the sticks? I mean, this stuff is documented fact.

Some of my family still used wood, lamps, a well an a outhouse till the eightys when it finally got around to them.

Uhhh, pretty sure there were septic tanks in the 80's, so there's really no excuse for an outhouse at that point -- especially not one that supposedly involves the TVA somehow.

My dad's still on a well, btw.. They ran water out there a few years ago but, up until then, nobody needed nor wanted city water where he is because they all had free wellwater. Some folks hooked up to city water, but my dad didn't. He *likes* his well water. There are also at least one or two old coots left out there who burn oil lamps and heat with wood just because they've never had, nor seen the need for electric lights.

To each their own..

An to this day I only know one person that has ever had a TVA job.

Ok, well, they employeed almost 30,000 people during the 1940s and still employ almost 12,000 today. Once again -- documented fact. Lots of people do work, and have worked, for the TVA.

Being as I live in a community called Cole City I know a bit about there history to. Unlike the government the coal companys came in an paid good money for the land they wanted an an people had an option to sell or not. Many people sold but most did not. They then created jobs around them not off somewhere else. The coal companys were not saints but they did not just come in an take what they wanted to give to people elsewhere like the government did.

Must be really dumb coal companies in your area, then, because what they did here was buy *mineral rights* for next to nothing and let people keep the land. And, so far as paying "good money" to miners, you should google the word "scrip" right after you google "dustbowl." Lots of miners in this area were paid in scrip that was only good at the company store -- and never enough scrip, either. They'd run up a tab at the company store and, before ya know it, they're working just to keep their debts paid to the company with none left over.

Brings me to another song, actually:

"You load sixteen tons, and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
St. Peter don'tcha call me, 'cause I can't go.
I owe my soul to the company store."

If you've never heard that one, give it a listen.

And that doesn't even begin to account for the deplorable, unsafe working conditions those men were subjected to. I have a series of little magazines at home called "Mantrip" (google that, too, if you want) which are interviews with locals about how things were back then in this area.. I think they were printed in the early 90's, when folks who were young then were getting up in years.. The goal was to preserve their stories.. The first several pages of one issue are investigational photos of roof collapses with arms and legs hanging out... I believe it's that same issue where they interview an old lady talks about how many women died in childbirth because neither a "doctor" (90% of which has ZERO college education -- documented) nor midwife could get their horse up the mountain in bad weather, etc..

Seriously...it's rough stuff.

An the reality of the voting system to this day is that people with money usually vote an people without dont. Also people in the city are more likely to vote than people in the country.

Farmers out in the country didn't usually take the day off to walk 5 miles to vote an walk back. Just like today its hard for me to turn loose an go vote even though I can drive those same 5 miles. So saying that you know what people thought by the vote is not accurate. Sure people in the citys were voting that way, they had power, jobs an money an most didnt have to loose anything to get it. The people that lost usually didnt get anything out of it. An most of the farmers never saw ether side because they were to busy working there farms. Even today you will never get a fair vote till you make election day a holiday that factorys have to take off. As any factory workers an see how many feel like they have the time to go vote.

You're speculating. This isn't fact -- this is what you figure probably happened. And that's OK, as you're entitled to an opinion -- just do us both a favor and label it as such next time.

See, what you have to understand is that FDR was very *unpopular* among people with money. Why?...because he was a Democrat, and stood for labor and the working man. Rich people don't like that, even today. So the idea that FDR was elected by people with power and money is not only ridiculous, but very simply historically inaccurate. FDR was elected -- four times -- by the common man. The farmer. The factory worker. The veteran.

And FWIW, I've spent a little time working in a factory. Those who wanted to vote found a way to vote. Just like me.

Sure, we see all of this stuff as good now because we have it an its not costing us anything for it to be there but to say that people thought is was good back then is not accurate. People that were gaining things liked it an people that were losing things didnt. I also dont think the people in the middle thought very much of it ether. I get to fish in a lake knowing there is what use to be a thriving town that my grandmother used to go to dances at 30 feet under my boat. I can look in to a flooded cave that use to be a stage. Just because I like to fish dont make forcing all those people off there land right. Remember history is not really history its the spin of what really happened given to the world by the people in power after the fact. It would be like saying the natives were happy with us because it turned out for the good of the majority.

I believe I prefaced all this by saying that I'm no more a fan of imminent domain than you...remember? And I'm still not.

What I'm saying is that lots and lots of people went from being dirt-poor sharecroppers fighting off drought, disease, and famine to living easier lives in town with washing machines and Chevrolets on account of the work done by the TVA. Overall, it was a good program.

Heck, if not for the TVA and Alcoa, you *might* actually be speaking German right now! Took a lot of energy and aluminum to build all those planes, afterall.. Oh!...and we wont' even get started on the work they did in Oak Ridge.

My grandfather worked at Oak Ridge, btw..

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

I get all my facts from people that were there. Yes most are dead now. But I'm not 5. I was around in the 80s an 90s to talk to these people an still do with the ones that are still around. An my grandmother is here talking to me about it today. She was working this farm then. They forgot more about farming than we will ever know. An TVA took bottom land. Bottom land does not dry up. It is the richest an wettest soil you can get. These farms that were on bottom land were growing everything great. The ones TVA took were the ones producing the most food per acre. Im sure shuting down the biggest food producers helped everyone out. She also remembers the whole town of Nicajack(spelling) being forced out. It was not failing.
All this is documented too. There are even movies about how it really went. I believe one is called TVA made back in the 40s or 50s.

As for the outhouse. Indoor pluming is nice to have when you have water to feed it. That takes a pump... That means power that they didn't have. So the outhouse was still the best way.

 

[Q9]

Just because I zero in on irrelevant little things like this... "We might be speaking German." Huh? The Nazis couldn't even make it across the English Channel thanks to an incompetent Luftwaffe and Operation Barbarossa (Which translates to "Epic Fail"), what makes you think they could make it across the Atlantic? Hitler never wanted to conquer the world except in Allied propaganda. Besides, Hitler was militarily a land animal. They wouldn't have made it past the first Iowa-class battleship that sailed out to meet them. Even assuming they somehow were capable of ammassing enough battleships, carriers, destroyers, etc., necessary to carry on a prolonged naval campaign, they wouldn't make it any distance inland. Too many rednecks with shotguns, and if they landed in the Southern US particularly, they would have serious issues with the swamps and barrier islands. They wouldn't have stood a chance in an invasion of the US. Even Japanese Admiral Yamamoto stated, "You cannot invade mainland America. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

I'm sorry, I know this is totally off-topic. I obsess on little things like that.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Man we have been off topic for ages.

Where is a good reference to that quote by the way? I might want to paint it on my truck.