im in for a fight .....I LOST!!!!

[bigstack]

I do agree with most of what is being said. Except that it is not affected by public opinion or patitions etc..... What world do you live in? A Public official is just that, PUBLIC! I live in a small town. The only way to affect the Local pollitition is through the PUBLIC. Even when it is comming from other than local people. Once the local people begin to see the negative attention being brought on by the local official, there will be changes made. If the local Gov. will not listen to the local people, Then it is up to the local people to Expose the local Gov. and its faults to the world! Most of the local Gov. here are all wanna be's. They wanna Be a real pollitition in a real gov. They dream of the day that they can move up and on to bigger things. IF, you begin to cause doubt in their abilities or cause a negative public opinion of them, They will change! I know first hand, that if a political figure is failing in their duties and it brings negative attention to our town(don't matter how far away from us!) The person who has caused the attention will NOT be placed in office again. This is America, We all have rights! As long as there is not a direct health hazard, No one is in danger, and no one is complaining, There is no reason to delay the approval. Has any one ever heard "IT'S The SQUEEKY WHEEL THAT GETS THE GREASE!" Thank God for America and PUBLIC opinion! Every public opinion matters! No one who is in office wants negative attention, Local or not!

You Go Girl!!!!
It is your RIGHT to fight for your RIGHTS!!!
Politicans hate it when the lil guy stands up to them. Politicians belive, I know whays right for you better than you do! I'll make the decisions and you just go along! It'll be better for you not to think! just accept it!

HOORAY for the Mayor and most of the council!!!

Good luck and God Bless!

 

[chickenshagg]

We need to stand up together and close all pet stores and all breeder/hatcheries. It seems as though we are no longer capable of caring for any pet, either it be a cat, dog, bunny, goldfish, parakee, lizard, turtle, or chicken. We suffer from a short attention span so when the newness of having a pet wears off then we apparently just dump the pet. This argument would apply to anything. Should we ban people from having kids because they run in the street, make a lot of noise, trespass onto others properties, and sometimes destroy others personal properties.

Has any one ever heard of someone being mauled or killed by a hen? We have all heard of dogs doing this but does any city or town have an ordinance banning dogs as pets?

I live in a suburban area and I have fifteen chickens. Not at anytime have my neighbors complained. I have people stop and talk to me about my chickens. Everyone seems to love them and they really love the fresh eggs. I have found that giving friends and neighbors fresh eggs is agreat way to put a smile on their face. There is a lady that lives up the street from and she watches kids in her home during the day. Quite often she will bring the kids down to my house to see or feed the chickens. I can here the kids laughing as they look at the chickens.

Responsible people will be responsible and irresponsible people will be irresponsible. That does not matter what the subject of responsibility is!

 

[onecent]

Quote:
She should have figured that out all by herself, just like she should have understood that she shouldn't have kept the chickens in the first place and attempted to change the ordnance or have it declared moot by a court.

A competent attorney, weather familiar with the local laws or not, could have a field day with that ordinance.

I too have had a bit of experience with local elected and non elected officials. They posture, prevaricate, delay, obstruct, and hide anyway they can. Frequently it is only public outcries or adverse publicity that motivates them to change things.

I think it mildly comical and very refreshing that the elected officials in this case are actually discussing changing things and it is their (and frequently their only true) employee that is tossing the spanner into things.

Unlike Sonoran Silkies I believe that the manager should be given more rope, that might just cause the council to order him to see that an ordinance is actually produced for their contemplation.

Unfortunately workshop sessions are not usually open debate situations.

You do not get any votes taken because the public hasn't been notified that the items are up for consideration and approval.

Even when things are up for consideration and approval one has to be careful as to how you ask questions and staying within your alloted time when speaking.

As for folks here piling on it isn't required, it is the folks that live where onecent does that should be helping to change that unenforcible ordnance.

The folks here should have a very long list of the reasons to be able to keep chickens and point by point counters to every bogus argument put forth by the opposition that can be shared with the folks where onecent lives.

Lots of good comments here.

I absolutely agree that it should be LOCAL opinion that determines the ordinance. I WILL NOT sign petitions or send messages to officials in another jurisdiction. I feel it to be highly inappropriate to interfere in a government that is not mine.

I would be OUTRAGED to find out that the officials who are elected by me and my fellow citizens of city/county/state/federal level (whichever it may be) paid any attention to the opinions of a non-citizen. Would you want China, England or Egypt to have input into US laws? Should Montana citizens have say in the laws enacted in Virginia? It is the same thing. Providing correct and valid information and resources to a citizen to present as he/she pleases is another thing entirely.

Hi Sonoran, you are very intelligent and i do respect your opinion, but i just want my officials to see & know that other cities do allow chickens, and that it does work, and people like them, i don't think that any of them even knew this, also our citizens here in our city can also see that this can work, Ive had people in my city come to me & tell me what a great idea it would be to have chickens!! one lady even mentioned she liked it cause its going "green" and she is all for that! so i feel everyone is learning from all of this........citizens and officials.

 

[onecent]

Quote:
Hi there! yes i saw that! so he knows about the pond! i think everyone who lives here has put a duck out there, they sell them at Easter time, then when they get big, they go to the pond.

 

[onecent]

Quote:
AMEN! thank you for posting!!

 

[onecent]

Quote:
YES!!! thank you!!

 

[LizFM]

Quote:
I believe you are wrong about this. (actually, both my husband and I have been on the city council of small towns, so I have experience on issues like this) Unfortunately small-scale local issues are NOT, in the real world, determined by small-scale local factors alone.

I agree that when a question or suggestion comes up, it SHOULD be: how does it work here right now? and How would it work here if we changed it?

That is not how local government tends to work. Local government tends to ask, "What's everybody else doing?" out of a misguided belief that if they follow "what everybody else is doing" they have less chance of being wrong...or, more accurately, they can shift blame away from personal responsibility for decision making by saying they only followed what other local governments were doing.

If you think that you can defend your rights based only on input from actual local people, I think you are being unrealistic.

Animal rights extremists work exactly this way to cause a 'landslide' of local ordinances to build up to higher levels of government...they get laws passed in the towns where such laws are passed the easiest, then they build momentum by moving on to other towns/areas. Then they can approach local governments and say, "See, everybody else thinks this is a good idea."

There are groups who are very savvy at using this type of "astroturf movement" (fake grassroots movement). Unfortunately, they're usually on the wrong sides of the issues, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[LizFM]

Further explanation. I believe you have to treat a threat to ANYONE's right to own backyard chickens as a threat to EVERYONE'S right to own backyard chickens.

As an example (this is an example only, I'm not trying to discuss gun laws/gun control)

This is exactly the attitude of gun rights advocates, and how they meet potential challenges/threats to gun rights...a threat to John Smith's rights in SomeOtherTown, SomeOtherState is a threat to Me in MyTown, MyState...because they're coming after me next. A victory for one is likewise a victory for all.

It is in my best interests, as a person who wants to own chickens, to advocate for the rights of everyone to have chickens. When we organize we are more powerful and more effective lobbyists. That's just the way our current political system works and we are wise to take note and make use of it. Being silent because "it doesn't affect me directly" does nothing but strengthen the opposition, like the saying goes, "I didn't speak up for anyone else and by the time they got to me there was no one left to speak up for me."

 

[theFox]

Quote:
First owning a backyard chicken isn't a right enumerated as being protected.
Second the other item you speak of actually is.

Now apply the constitution.

I didn't say you had to be silent just not pile on, that is truly for the locals, the folks here can provide them with tons of information and likely even some contacts with true experts.

Armed with that information the locals can suggest a lot of other towns of the same size, smaller, and larger that allow them along with the actual ordnances used.

I've known many a local elected official who when getting a communication from someone that is not from the area to summarily dismiss it. But that same communication from someone local gets paid attention to. This is human nature.

That card is one that can and frequently does backfire.

I am well aware of the so called grass roots groups, once again the local political hacks will pay attention to the local folks far more than the imported astroturfers. Now if one of the astroturfers is also a local you have an effective adversary. You deal with them by making them into liars.

Now if you want to tackle it at the state level with a preemptive then you can draw from a much larger pool of folks to raise the ruckus.

An aside to onecent:

In order to get that ordinance tossed out it has to be challenged, in order to challenge it you have to be in "non compliance" and get hauled before a Judge. Otherwise you have to get the ordinance changed by the path you are currently trying. There is another path, but that would be low balling.

I wish you the best of luck, whatever you do, do it with a smile on your face, be truthful, and polite. Back up every thing you say with evidence, invite the politicians to talk to folks in the other towns, and with actual experts that know the difference between a 72,000 hen flock caged in a 500 foot long poultry barn and 8 Silkies in a 6 by 8 coop with a decent run, access to fresh air, and cared for by someone who considers them part of the family.

Keep us posted.

 

[onecent]

OMG!!! look what someone put on the comments!

Love America
Ladies and Gentlemen, I nominate Penny Avent as President to the start of
BYCP (Back Yard Chicken Party) Lets move it all across America!
in favor say "aye".. PLEASE RESPOND AND FORWARD TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS and Family. This includes Americans to take back their rights and freedoms to have chickens in well kept in coops and abiding by all laws for permits ,etc.
Penny Avent- Please accept the nomination and we would love for you to
lead this nation with the movement along with BYC networking website..
BACK YARD CHICKEN PARTY
Friday, February 5, 2010 - 08:14 PM


Love America
I ve had some fun with the comments, but I do love my chickens and as a chicken lover, do understand some of what Penny is going thru, that I why I and asking everyone to go with the nomination.. I believe she can start a movement and please take it serious with my comment of me wanting everyone to nominate her. IT IS NOT A JOKE!!!!
Friday, February 5, 2010 - 09:02 PM