I'm losing chickens one by one

[mafaller]

I'll check into that Jamie. Their temporary coop was pretty muddy. Only half of it was covered by tin. No wheezing, snot, or coughing as far as my novice self can tell.

 

[threehorses]

Well the disease isn't passed vertically (through the egg), so that's a plus. I wouldn't eat a bird that dies that was suspected of mareks because it's like cancer. Their eggs are fine. As pets they're fine. They're contagious, so every batch of birds you get from here on will need to be vaccinated and probably given a booster. Unfortuntely vaccine is one-time use and only comes in multiple dosages. So that means either buying vaccinated stock or biting the bullet for the vaccine. More likely the latter because even vaccinated chicks will fall to it if there's enough exposure.

I really honestly don't know what to tell you to do - just the options.

And to get one tested if you can. Just to make sure. It's always best to know. Marek's isn't reportable so no big risk there.

And treat for respiratory, and nutritional stuff. and hope.

I did have a Mareks rooster for years, but he had the optical form. I still think that many people have mareks birds in their flock and never know it.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Hmmm, important info, that. Might just be respiratory then. Let's hope!

Is there any way you can get a photo of that rooster's chest? Is it possible he has a blistered chest, or some infected skin from the previous conditions? Or does it feel really like a tumor?

 

[mafaller]

I would say that it's more like a blister because it seems fluid filled, but it's the size of an egg. The area on the chest isn't discolored, but the area between the leggs is really red. I don't feel any hard masses, just those fluidy ones. Does that make sense?

 

[mafaller]

I think he likes to stick that front bump (tumor) area into the water as well because I've seen him putting his chest in the water. Not sure if they all do that just because of their size, but it's often wet. Their coop is dry, so any wet is definitely from the water "trough". Does this change anything, do blisters mean something less menacing than marek's?

 

[threehorses]

This does actually open up new possibilities. This is where flock histories become so very important.

One more time, can you tell us everything you know about their keeping?

You mentioned wet pens before, mud, not a total shelter - for how long?
And now in your care there's some wet but nothing like before.
And repeat each of the symptoms again like this:

breast blisters, one rooster - also has ----
Lameness and lethargy, one hen about X years old - eventually died.
snotty nose in..

etc


There's a condition called Breast blister that is actually a staph infection. It can, interestingly enoug, cause lameness. And staph can definitely cause death.

If you can please send me another summary as written above, I t6hink we might be able to find some answers for you - well as best we can without testing and being there.

 

[mafaller]

OK, I have no idea where they were kept before they got to the guy I bought them from's backyard. In his backyard they were kept in a large plastic tote with a whole cut out for viewing with a screen and a whole for a heat light. I don't remember what kind of bedding they had. I brought them home in a cardboard box with hay in the bottom. They were said to be about 1 week old. They stayed in my house in a large tote with pine chips for a few weeks, until they were so big that they were jumping up to the top of the tote to roost. I believe they were 6 weeks old when they went to the temporary coop because the big coop wasn't finished yet. While in the house: We got the chicks on April 9 and we lost a NH Red on the 11th, one on the 16th, one on the 20th, two on the 21st, and then we lost one more right before the move outside. All of them went the same way, just started not moving as much. Droopy heads like they were trying to sleep, then they'd start getting weaker and the other chicks would knock them over when they were scurrying around. It usually happened really quickly after I'd notice that something was wrong. All the droppings I saw were dark brown with white in them. There was one chick that didn't die that would often have matted down around the rear end and that ended up being the big rooster that now has the big egg shaped blister/tumor on his chest and the lump between his legs that is reddish. I changed their bedding every two days, otherwise it would stink. Sometimes I would have to pour in more bedding because they'd spill the heck out of their waterer. We moved them outside at about 6 weeks because the weather was mostly warm enough for them, but we had a fenced in enclosure (10 by 12 I think) that had tin over half of it to make a roof. The sides had tin all the way around to protect them from drafts, so the sides were tin halfways up and chain link the other half. This coop wasn't quite tall enough for me to stand straight up, I had to crouch over. There were times when there was only about 12 sq ft of dry ground and the rest was mud, especially when we had a straight week of rain. When we realized that the new coop was taking longer than expected we got straw and put it in the old coop and we have straw in their new coop now. I'm already looking into getting pine chips for the new coop because you said it absorbs better than straw and straw does matt with the poop. We also left their tote in there on its side with bedding so they could further avoid any drafts and their heating lamp was in there. They just got into their new coop on June 28th. The ground here is sandy and dries out quickly, but their temporary coop got wetter than their new coop will. I noticed the big rooster had a lump while they were in the temporary coop.

One big rooster had a lump/blister/tumor on his breast area, no discoloration and it doesn't seem to hurt him. He also had some matting around his vent but nothing really caked. Between his back legs he has another lump that appears reddish and it seemed to hurt him when I touched it. Never noticed that one before. All the chickens will be about 14 weeks on Thursday. (I got them 13 weeks ago Thursday and they were supposed to be about 1 week). This rooster always sticks his chest in the water too and often has a thin stream of wet on his feathers from doing so. I've seen him perch on the water "trough" and stick his chest in??? Nothing else on your checklist is wrong with him. No noticeable breathing problems, no ooozing of anything from his nose or mouth. No coughing or wheezing, no heavy breathing or panting. He's the top of the pecking order for my boys. He's also the biggest chicken out there. He has a really bright red comb that is very high and a large hanging waddle that is bright red as well??? I'm not sure if my terms are correct.

Little black chicken, is half the size of the others. He has one bad leg, but I can't find anything wrong with that leg he is just hobbled. He uses his wings to help him get around and he'll flutter his wings so he can run if he needs to. He's low on the totem pole, of course but he eats and gets right in there. Can't find anything wrong with him either, but he of course is smaller and has less fullness on his keel.

Then we have a little red that is half the size of the others. Seems perfectly healthy just has a very small almost nonexistent comb and is very small. Half the size of my regular sized hens.

Several of my other hens have almost no comb and the comb that is visible is not red, it's whitish or bluish or just almost a brown/red if that makes any sense at all.

I hope this is better detail for you.

Thanks
Michelle

 

[mafaller]

bump

 

[threehorses]

Thank you - that paints a much more clear picture of what was happening.

First, I think the first batch of deaths, and the second batch of blisters are possible separate.

I think that the breast lumps are actually "breast blisters" which are like the ones commonly found in broiler houses. The breast bone (keel) has a small fluid lined sack that has a membrane protecting it. If irritated, often by environmental factors, it can become inflammed and infected. The causative agents (bugs) are often Mycoplasma synoviae (not to be confused with M. gallisepticum), Pasteurella, or staphylococci. Staph is commonly found in the ground anyway.

Wet conditions, keel bone irritation from sharpness, pretty much a range of conditions in the environment can cause this. It's common in broiler houses where birds are housed in close contact.

The blisters can apparently be fluid filled - clear or blood tinged. Does this sound like it? Here's a picture: http://www.poultrynews.com/New/Diseases/Merks/204702.htm

From what I can see, most often if there's treatment at all, it's by puncturing the blister with a sterile instrument, and treating with some sort of potassium solution or antiseptics along with systemic antibiotics. Because we don't know the exact causative bacteria, I wouldn't want to treat systemically. I'd like to know more about the puncturing treatment before I'd try to describe it. But that seems to be the only treatment ever given.

I suspect that the chicks died of something more common to chicks. You say their droppings were dark brown with white - but were they runny dark brown consistently, or solid? There are a number of factors including brooder pneumonia, temperature issues, illnesses, even just a weak line of birds. There could have been a bacterial infection since you said that 2 days of litter was very smelly, though it's usually smelly so too ahrd to tell there. It could have been dietary insufficiency, or anything.

I'm wondering about coccidiosis because of the water spilling, or aspergillosis (brooder pneumonia). But usually breathing issues are associated with the latter, and there's just not enough of a visual for me on the former though coccidiosis doesn't necessarily have to include bloody droppings. Sometimes it's just loose droppings and cecal involvement. There are different forms of it. So it's hard to tell.

What it seems like to me is that there were a number of deaths in quick succession - and then a break, but keel issues and the rooster that has a reduced immune system and keel blisters? yes?

 

[mafaller]

Nathalie,

Thanks again, my chicken guru.

I think you are probably right about the rooster having some sort of blister. I'm not sure what's going on between his legs because that seemed painful to the touch and was quite red, but I guess it could be another one. They are both very fluidy filled and soft and squishy. No hard crust, so I think it's the first type in that article without the hard crust. So, I guess just try and keep him healthy and in a good environment and he'll recover???

Also, I still have had chickens dying. (not any new deaths, but I've had deaths from chickens that didn't seem sick) Do you think the chicks, the rooster, the lame one, and these deaths are all seperate things?? Is there something you think I should try? I gave them a cereal bowl with plain yogurt and two hard boiled eggs in it yesterday. I waited to make sure they had all had at least one gulp of it. They LOVED it.

Should I do this daily? weekly? Any advice is wanted.

Oh, I think you asked me about chick poo when they were little. It was more runny dark brown than solid, but there were solid ones in there. Vague, I know. Sorry.

Thanks again, it seems we went from me maybe culling the whole flock to maybe I just need to get these birds healthier???? Am I right to be optimistic?

Thanks