Impact or Sour crop or both?

[BrinellP]

Hi, This is my first post and of course it's urgent. I have a 11/2 year old Sussex, MaryAnn who has what seems to be both. I noticed four days a go she wasn't as chipper but ate. Then didn't eat and was laying in the corner of the coop. Wednesday morning I realized her crop was the size of a softball. I am new to chickens and didn't know to check their crops every morning. I do now. So thinking its a blockage, I started with the ducolax, water, massage and added salt water yesterday, From info I read on here. I've done it for two days. It's seems to have softened and maybe shrank a little. It feels squishy like sand. We do have sand in the coop. She pooped only liquid for days. Last night we got a little poop that had what looks like hay wrapped together. Just went to move her from roost to kennel and no more solids just watery. I have noticed when massaging her neck, she'll burp and it smells yucky. I just don't know what to do next. I really don't want her to suffer or die.

What's my next step? I know there's a fountain of knowledge here and I could really use some of that right now.
I forgot to add that I found one roundworm on the poop board so they were wormed with Wazine on Tuesday. They were given Valbazen back in May for Capillary worms. I had takes in a sample to our dog vet and that's what she told me to give them.

 

[coach723]

Sorry you are having trouble, and welcome to BYC. Crop issues can be frustrating to determine what is actually going on, and often you will be dealing with multiple symptoms/issues. Slow or impacted crops can become sour crops, etc, and determining the underlying cause is the issue. I'm going to give you a link to an article that is pretty comprehensive that may help, rather than try to put it all here. https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...d-sour-crops-prevention-and-treatments.67194/
I would go through the whole article and see if you can narrow things down any.
You have done the right things so far, I would recommend that you try to keep her fluid intake up as some of the things that can help things move along can also cause dehydration, which will just make things worse. Hope the article is of some help.

 

[BrinellP]

Thank you so much for the help. I have read the article you referenced. Which I'm sure is the only reason she's still alive. I am making up the mixture to help dissolve it right now. I'm not sure if I should try to vomit her. Kind of scared to do it but I want to do what I can to help. Is that somethings should do at this point?

She hasn't had food for two days just water. Should I give her yogurt? She seems hungry.

 

[rebrascora]

I'm counting back 4 days and trying to figure out if the worming with Wazine on Tues may be connected to the impaction or if she was possibly sick before the worming. If after, it could be that she had a large infestation of worms that caused a blockage in her gut when the wormer killed them. That could have backed up her digestive system causing the crop to slow and sour.
It could also be that she has been eating straw/hay since you mention she has passed a small amount of fibrous material since the dulcolax and that is causing the problem. I had a bantam who did this and I ended up having to do surgery to remove it.
I would recommend only liquid feeds and regular massage of the crop 4x a day. If you don't see some improvement after 2 or 3 days then I would try holding her inverted and massaging, to encourage her to vomit. There are risks associated with this but as with most medical procedures, you have to weigh them against the possible benefits. I found with one of mine, that inverting her and massaging helped to break up sediment that had settled in the bottom of her crop and possibly proventriculus, that upright massage failed to tackle. Interestingly that hen would not vomit and I was on a long time trying to achieve that, but the action of repeatedly and desperately trying for extended periods of time may have actually resolved the issue.

I believe Acidified Copper Sulphate should tackle the sour crop issue but haven't used it myself, so you will need to do a little research on that. I have also read of some people using vaginal thrush pessaries or even the cream, to kill a yeast infection in the crop.

The important thing is to keep fluids going through her and a good vitamin and electrolyte supplement, until you can get the blockage cleared. If it comes down to it, as an absolutely last resort, surgery is much more scary than it is complicated, so, if you are not squeamish, it is possible and incredibly rewarding to physically remove the obstruction by cutting a small hole in the crop and then sticking it back together with super glue..... if you can summon the courage to do it. My little pullet was back on her feet and eating within minutes of completing surgery and laying me eggs exactly a month later. There are some excellent You Tube videos that show you how to do it.

Good luck with her and if you have any specific questions that you think I may be able to help you with, shout up.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[BrinellP]

I'm counting back 4 days and trying to figure out if the worming with Wazine on Tues may be connected to the impaction or if she was possibly sick before the worming. If after, it could be that she had a large infestation of worms that caused a blockage in her gut when the wormer killed them. That could have backed up her digestive system causing the crop to slow and sour.
It could also be that she has been eating straw/hay since you mention she has passed a small amount of fibrous material since the dulcolax and that is causing the problem. I had a bantam who did this and I ended up having to do surgery to remove it.
I would recommend only liquid feeds and regular massage of the crop 4x a day. If you don't see some improvement after 2 or 3 days then I would try holding her inverted and massaging, to encourage her to vomit. There are risks associated with this but as with most medical procedures, you have to weigh them against the possible benefits. I found with one of mine, that inverting her and massaging helped to break up sediment that had settled in the bottom of her crop and possibly proventriculus, that upright massage failed to tackle. Interestingly that hen would not vomit and I was on a long time trying to achieve that, but the action of repeatedly and desperately trying for extended periods of time may have actually resolved the issue.

I believe Acidified Copper Sulphate should tackle the sour crop issue but haven't used it myself, so you will need to do a little research on that. I have also read of some people using vaginal thrush pessaries or even the cream, to kill a yeast infection in the crop.

The important thing is to keep fluids going through her and a good vitamin and electrolyte supplement, until you can get the blockage cleared. If it comes down to it, as an absolutely last resort, surgery is much more scary than it is complicated, so, if you are not squeamish, it is possible and incredibly rewarding to physically remove the obstruction by cutting a small hole in the crop and then sticking it back together with super glue..... if you can summon the courage to do it. My little pullet was back on her feet and eating within minutes of completing surgery and laying me eggs exactly a month later. There are some excellent You Tube videos that show you how to do it.

Good luck with her and if you have any specific questions that you think I may be able to help you with, shout up.

Best wishes

Barbara

Thank you for the reply Barbara. I found the worm on Tuesday, and put the meds in the same day I found her impacted crop. She'd been off for about three days before that. We did get a new scratch that has full cracked corn, black sunflower seeds and wheat seeds in it. I wonder if that could have been the reason? To much, to fast and not enough water?
My plan for today. Keep giving the ducolax two times today, (or should I do three?), massage her crop, give her water through the syringe and add the baking soda cinnamon dissolving combination that was suggested.
As for feeding her. I'm not sure what liquid feeds are. Moisten pellets? I do have a probiotic for chickens I could add to her water.
I'll add the monistate tomorrow.
As for the surgery..well if that's what needs to happen then I'll do it. I'm a little squeamish but have a really good, suck it up switch I can turn on.lol
Thanks so much!

 

[rebrascora]

Liquid feed, is essentially electrolytes (a little sugar and salt and baking soda) and vitamin supplement in the water, perhaps with a little of her pellets dissolved in it but it really needs to be liquid rather than even porridge consistency otherwise you may just be adding to the impaction.

Hopefully it won't come to surgery but I love this attitude....

I'm a little squeamish but have a really good, suck it up switch I can turn on.lol

I would not use the dulcoax more than twice a day but keep at the massaging.

Please keep us updated. We can all learn from these situations....and individually we don't come across them that often, so by sharing our experiences like this through the forum, we can improve our knowledge of best practice.

Regards

Barbara

 

[BrinellP]

Liquid feed, is essentially electrolytes (a little sugar and salt and baking soda) and vitamin supplement in the water, perhaps with a little of her pellets dissolved in it but it really needs to be liquid rather than even porridge consistency otherwise you may just be adding to the impaction.

Hopefully it won't come to surgery but I love this attitude....


I would not use the dulcoax more than twice a day but keep at the massaging.

Please keep us updated. We can all learn from these situations....and individually we don't come across them that often, so by sharing our experiences like this through the forum, we can improve our knowledge of best practice.

Regards

Barbara

Thanks for answering my questions. I will definitely keep everyone updated.
Btw, I just watched a couple surgery videos...I think not getting the edges of the crop sewn properly would be my biggest concern. But I'll cross that bridge if I have to.
Off to the coop!

 

[rebrascora]

I used super glue instead of stitches to seal the crop and left the outer skin open so that it could drain in case it didn't seal properly...... Once I got the crop emptied, I flushed it with saline and then blotted the edges of the incision as dry as I could, put a little dab of superglue on and nipped them together. It was a bit fiddly to isolate the edges of the crop incision to do it, but it worked brilliantly in seconds. I packed the outer wound (incision) with Germolene which is a human antiseptic cream here in the UK that I find particularly effective and she healed incredibly well. Keeping the incision quite high up in the crop means that it is above the water line, so to speak and there was no leakage at all with mine. The scariest part is the initial incision which bled a little more than I expected and of course cutting into a conscious bird. After that, the rest was quite absorbing. She was on her feet and running around the minute we let go of her after surgery and eating as soon as I put food down in front of her a few minutes later, so clearly not traumatised by it. I gave her mostly sloppy food for the first few days, so that nothing would scratch or irritate it and despite the fact that she refluxed and aspirated some fluid from the crop during the initial incision and was wheezy and ruttling for a few days, she recovered on her own without any medication. It really was truly remarkable to see her pick up so instantly after surgery and considering that I had been battling the impaction for over a week with no real improvement, it definitely justified the ordeal (both for her and me) of doing it.
Vet's can do the procedure if you can find one that is willing to, but there are significant risks in anaesthetising a chicken and from what I have read, there are a good percentage that do not recover as a result, plus a hefty vets bill of course.

I would not advocate doing surgery other than as a last resort but would encourage you to have a go if all else has failed.

 

[BrinellP]

I used super glue instead of stitches to seal the crop and left the outer skin open so that it could drain in case it didn't seal properly...... Once I got the crop emptied, I flushed it with saline and then blotted the edges of the incision as dry as I could, put a little dab of superglue on and nipped them together. It was a bit fiddly to isolate the edges of the crop incision to do it, but it worked brilliantly in seconds. I packed the outer wound (incision) with Germolene which is a human antiseptic cream here in the UK that I find particularly effective and she healed incredibly well. Keeping the incision quite high up in the crop means that it is above the water line, so to speak and there was no leakage at all with mine. The scariest part is the initial incision which bled a little more than I expected and of course cutting into a conscious bird. After that, the rest was quite absorbing. She was on her feet and running around the minute we let go of her after surgery and eating as soon as I put food down in front of her a few minutes later, so clearly not traumatised by it. I gave her mostly sloppy food for the first few days, so that nothing would scratch or irritate it and despite the fact that she refluxed and aspirated some fluid from the crop during the initial incision and was wheezy and ruttling for a few days, she recovered on her own without any medication. It really was truly remarkable to see her pick up so instantly after surgery and considering that I had been battling the impaction for over a week with no real improvement, it definitely justified the ordeal (both for her and me) of doing it.
Vet's can do the procedure if you can find one that is willing to, but there are significant risks in anaesthetising a chicken and from what I have read, there are a good percentage that do not recover as a result, plus a hefty vets bill of course.

I would not advocate doing surgery other than as a last resort but would encourage you to have a go if all else has failed.

I appreciate the information. Not sure whether we are doing it or not yet. She's the same and Ive been keeping up the same. She can't not eat forever and live off electrolytes.

I am wondering if I'm wrong about it being impacted crop. I keep reading different ways to tell. When I first pick her up, it's like a softball but squishy. When I'm massaging it I can push it around, squeeze it. Feels like a big balloon of sand. I don't feel any hard edges or bulky pieces. Can someone please tell me how to be sure, or at least as sure as I can be.

Thanks so much!

 

[rebrascora]

Soft and squishy but slightly puttyish is how mine felt before surgery, so that when you squeezed it, it would retain some of it's squeezed shape until you squeezed it again in a different direction, like very soft putty. Essentially it was a mass of soggy straw with some soil/sand debris amongst it. What I will say is that I left it too long to do surgery the second time and whilst the surgery was successful, she had become to weak to recover. There is a point at which they lose too much weight and the body shuts down, so if you feel that surgery is going to be necessary, don't put it off too long.
I documented my surgery in another thread on necropsies.... I will try to find it and post a link. I'm afraid I didn't have enough hands to take photos during surgery.... it is fiddly enough just getting it done, but some of my observations might be helpful. I have no medical background but have butchered a few excess cockerels and done a few DIY necropsies, which helps as it gives you a basic knowledge of their anatomy, but it's not essential. If you can find a friend or relative to help you, who is in the medical profession, that may be beneficial.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ns-xxx-graphic-necropsy-photos.823961/page-33

Post No 330 onwards. Beware that link contains some pretty graphic photos