Improving clay soil and cover crop questions

[Estrella77]

Hello all!

I have pretty terrible clay soil here in PA that I've sadly been gardening in for 10 yrs, same spot.
Tried raised beds for several years, but the soil I purchased was possibly worse than my own, so last year I dug it out. Garden still in same spot bc it's fenced.

My research suggests I shouldn't till it at all, bc of the air pockets in it, but just later organic matter as much and often as possible on top. Question is, any idea how long this will take? I don't want it to be years lol but I think it is. Any other ideas? I do this in the spring but I'm sure not nearly enough and I also don't regularly mulch in planting season, which I'm starting now as well.

I was thinking of a cover crop as well. However will that just use all the compost? If I later compost around the fall veggies now, can I plant the cover crop later and could this help? But don't you need to till away the cover crop and then that messes things up?

Thank you!!

Ps here is an embarrassing pic from earlier this summer lol to give an idea

 

[SmiYa0126]

Hi! This YouTuber might interest you! I'm in SE PA too. In 2020 I put down a thick layer of mulch, it's broken down now, but it didn't add much girth to the soil. I joke with my hubby that I can grow rocks. I'm going to try to put lots of leaves down and more of chicken and horse manure this winter. To build it up. I'm working on a quasi native garden and small veggie and herb patch.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Hey PA, I'm in a section of Florida which is heavy with famous Georgia Red Clay. It IS a process of years.

Yes, tilling has problems. My local Ag extension office says I should be adding Ag lime at a rate of 800lb per acre yearly to address some of the pH and soil structure issues. As much compost as I can incorporate to improve structure and fertility (I'm using "bunny gold" and chicken droppings composted with oak, hickory, holly, and similar leaves at leasat 6 mo old). Finally, I'm not tilling, I'm plowing. Basically flipping the top 6-8".

It results in a much less uniform mix, but it also doesn't result in further reducing soil structure to a fine powder that blows away, then dries rock hard like concrete. I'm looking at sourcing some mushroom compost as well - but I fear that, like peat moss (which I've tried) - it will just result in "fiber reinforced concrete" clay soil when it dries out.

I use clovers as a cover crop - again nitrogen fixers - and am experimenting with other plants supposed to put down deep roots. "driller" Radish, fescue (some varieties, not others), carrots, brassica (rape, mustard greens, collard greens, etc). Neither the carrots or the radish have produced veggies you'd recognize - they are mostly blunted just an inch or two long.

I'll let you know in about 5 years how its going. Right now, all I can say with certainty is "slowly".

 

[RoyalChick]

I have heavy red clay soil and my garden has soil that isn’t even top soil (it was from the septic was dug).
I toss dead leaves, chicken manure etc on top and alternate years between two beds.
Sometimes I use a clover cover crop.
I am not sure I have really changed the underlying soil that much, but in only a year the top layers form good enough soil to grow things in.

 

[Sally PB]

Farmers here in Michigan plant fields of alfalfa. It sends roots down deep -- I've read up to 20 feet. The roots bring up minerals and break up hard pan. The farmer near me grow alfalfa for 2-3 years, then rotates to corn or wheat. He cuts the alfalfa for hay for his cows. When he cuts, you'd think the plants are dead, but they come back each time. To kill it, though, he sprays glyphosate.

I planted alfalfa as a cover crop in my garden once, several years ago. Two tillings the next spring took care of most of it. I still find a few plants, and I can't pull the entire root up, it goes so deep.

I planted it on a counterscarp, and sure enough, it's holding the dirt/clay very well. I plan to leave it; I can cut it for hay for the chickens or for mulch for the garden.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I wish alfalfa would take well here, but we are said to get too hot for it.

 

[Estrella77]

Thanks everyone!

Also I found this podcast that others with clay soil may like, I'll post it here if I can.

It turns out I've probably been watering too shallow and too frequently. Today I placed a container in the dirt and watered until puddles, then waited 10-15 min, watered until puddles again, etc until the container was filled with an inch of water. This took 3 waterings (normally I just do one). Later it was still hard to pass a stick down further than about 2 inches but I think it did water better than usual. I'm going to try this now and only water maybe 2 times per week instead of daily.

 

[igorsMistress]

I agree it is a process of years. You can use gypsum to help loosen the soil and maybe try a lasagna garden. It gives you plantable soil for the shallow root items and as it breaks down it helps improve the soil beneath it. Things with longer roots like tomatoes still do well and can help break up the soil as well.

 

[Estrella77]

Hey PA, I'm in a section of Florida which is heavy with famous Georgia Red Clay. It IS a process of years.

Yes, tilling has problems. My local Ag extension office says I should be adding Ag lime at a rate of 800lb per acre yearly to address some of the pH and soil structure issues. As much compost as I can incorporate to improve structure and fertility (I'm using "bunny gold" and chicken droppings composted with oak, hickory, holly, and similar leaves at leasat 6 mo old). Finally, I'm not tilling, I'm plowing. Basically flipping the top 6-8".

It results in a much less uniform mix, but it also doesn't result in further reducing soil structure to a fine powder that blows away, then dries rock hard like concrete. I'm looking at sourcing some mushroom compost as well - but I fear that, like peat moss (which I've tried) - it will just result in "fiber reinforced concrete" clay soil when it dries out.

I use clovers as a cover crop - again nitrogen fixers - and am experimenting with other plants supposed to put down deep roots. "driller" Radish, fescue (some varieties, not others), carrots, brassica (rape, mustard greens, collard greens, etc). Neither the carrots or the radish have produced veggies you'd recognize - they are mostly blunted just an inch or two long.

I'll let you know in about 5 years how its going. Right now, all I can say with certainty is "slowly".

I like the flipping idea- maybe I'll dig up a layer of the clay and try to put the compost later under it instead of putting it directly on top or rolling it in.

For the clover cover crop, in the spring do you till it or just dig it out in bunches and turn it upside down or what?

Thank you!

 

[Estrella77]

I agree it is a process of years. You can use gypsum to help loosen the soil and maybe try a lasagna garden. It gives you plantable soil for the shallow root items and as it breaks down it helps improve the soil beneath it. Things with longer roots like tomatoes still do well and can help break up the soil as well.

Thanks I'm going to look into gypsum!