Inbreeding and Line-Breeding Poultry

[keesmom]

Frankly, I kinda disagree with all the guys who say my line will disappear.

I figure if I hatch 15 chicks a year, and cull 10 of them, I have 7 great birds that will make awesome breeding stock. Again, I hatch 25 the next year, cull again, and have 8 birds that are tip-top. Now I have 15 great birds. I can sell some, show some, breed some more, and in 10 generations or so, buy another pair from the original breeder, Akers, to introduce some new blood. If I'm careful, I don't think I'll have infertility problems.

In reply to Saladin, I want to breed a good line, to sell and show. And I want to keep it going for as long as possible. The main reason I want to breed is to actually sell SQ birds. I want more people to have access to good birds, not hatchery stock.

So some breeders sell their Sumatra Bantams for $25 apiece. This is waay too pricey for an ordinary chicken person. I'd sell my birds for $10-$15 apiece, which will spread a wonderful gene pool around. That's what I want to do.

I guess you will have to see what your pair can produce. Not every chick you hatch from SQ parents will be SQ. In many breeds (mine included) there may be one chick out of 10 that's worth breeding or showing.

Oh, and Chris09 is quite right, $25 for an adult is not out of line at all.

 

[saladin]

Frankly, I kinda disagree with all the guys who say my line will disappear.

I figure if I hatch 15 chicks a year, and cull 10 of them, I have 7 great birds that will make awesome breeding stock. Again, I hatch 25 the next year, cull again, and have 8 birds that are tip-top. Now I have 15 great birds. I can sell some, show some, breed some more, and in 10 generations or so, buy another pair from the original breeder, Akers, to introduce some new blood. If I'm careful, I don't think I'll have infertility problems.

In reply to Saladin, I want to breed a good line, to sell and show. And I want to keep it going for as long as possible. The main reason I want to breed is to actually sell SQ birds. I want more people to have access to good birds, not hatchery stock.

So some breeders sell their Sumatra Bantams for $25 apiece. This is waay too pricey for an ordinary chicken person. I'd sell my birds for $10-$15 apiece, which will spread a wonderful gene pool around. That's what I want to do.

Breeding a 'good line' requires quality birds which it appears you have. Now you have to understand that to keep a line going there needs to be depth to the genetic base. If has been stated that your birds will inbreed well then you can get that to some degree with the chicks you hatch, but imo it's not enough from just a pair. I would encourage you to start this year with what you have, but expect to add other birds from Akers or someone in the future.

Personally, I'd never even remotely think about starting a line with just a pair. I've been doing this a long long time. I'll also say that I'd never think about hatching 15 chicks if the goal is establishing a line. I hatch a minimum of 200 Cubalayas a year and cull down to less than 20 birds and I have good stock. I hatch at least 100-160 Asil a year and I have as good of stock as you'll find in this country bar none. Granted, I sell a few Asil (20 or so a year) but I keep less than 15 each year.

I do hope you do well with your plan and don't mean to discourage you at all. I also believe in telling the truth and I honestly do not see how you can succeed with the plan you have. You are taking two closely related birds (brother and sister for all you know: why don't you call Doug and ask him?) and are expecting to hatch one clutch of eggs (15) and continue a line. It just doesn't work that way. The key to success with Quality is to hatch in Quanity.

 

[saladin]

As to cost: I will sell a Cubalaya for $20-25 a bird. I sell Asil for $150 and up. I sell Games for up to $450 a bird. And I get those amounts too. Just ask these fellows.

I also give away more birds than I sell. Just ask these fellows. I'm not a money-grubber.

I never never sell chicks! They may turn out to be crap and I don't want my name associated with such as that.

 

[donrae]

Frankly, I kinda disagree with all the guys who say my line will disappear.

I figure if I hatch 15 chicks a year, and cull 10 of them, I have 7 great birds that will make awesome breeding stock. Again, I hatch 25 the next year, cull again, and have 8 birds that are tip-top. Now I have 15 great birds. I can sell some, show some, breed some more, and in 10 generations or so, buy another pair from the original breeder, Akers, to introduce some new blood. If I'm careful, I don't think I'll have infertility problems.

In reply to Saladin, I want to breed a good line, to sell and show. And I want to keep it going for as long as possible. The main reason I want to breed is to actually sell SQ birds. I want more people to have access to good birds, not hatchery stock.

So some breeders sell their Sumatra Bantams for $25 apiece. This is waay too pricey for an ordinary chicken person. I'd sell my birds for $10-$15 apiece, which will spread a wonderful gene pool around. That's what I want to do.

I just have to say, it sounds like you're not planning on culling hard enough. I mean, folks that breed seriously talk about keeping like 10% of the chicks as future breeding stock, you're saying 50%. And of those, half will be roos? Truthfully, you don't need that many roos for good breeding. You'll want to pick the stellar one and let the "pretty good" ones go.

I agree most folks won't pay $25 for a chick, but for a show bird, grown enough you can see how it's built, that seems low to me.

I'm guessing you're the OP, you apparently changed your user name?

 

[saladin]

By the way, there are alot more problems than infertility with such close inbreeding from such little depth:

1. Decrease in size of standards.
2. Hatchability decreases.
3. Health and vigor decrease.
4. Increase in deformities (crooked beaks, toes, etc.)
5. Survivablity of chicks tends to decrease.

The best way to fix type is inbreeding. The fastest way to set faults is also inbreeding.

Inbreeding is a double-edged sword. I would never suggest it as the breeding method for someone just starting in poultry.

 

[3riverschick]

So, I'm still posting quotes, if you know it let me know. I'm very enamored of this new one, it may hang around for a while!

"If I'd known the world was ending I'd have brought better books"

================================================

I got it! Dale said it in The Walking Dead. Season 2 Episode 5. Pretty funny!

 

[BlackPanther]

I have some blue Plymouth Rocks growing up. Frankly, I'm not too pleased with the blue rooster I have right now; but I was told that I could not use the blue roosters I have growing with the blue hens because they are related through the father.

So my question is, what exactly would happen if I crossed the blue rooster with his half-sister?

 

[BGMatt]

I have some blue Plymouth Rocks growing up. Frankly, I'm not too pleased with the blue rooster I have right now; but I was told that I could not use the blue roosters I have growing with the blue hens because they are related through the father.

So my question is, what exactly would happen if I crossed the blue rooster with his half-sister?

As the rest of the discussion in this thread show, nothing. The biggest risk (until multiple generations down the road) is setting faults as well as the good points. Use the best cockerel you have. If you use a bird you're not happy with you will get more birds you're not happy with.

 

[casey7272]

Ok i have a couple questions. With the understanding that im starting with hatcherys chicks and not hoping to get "show quality" out of them but just im prove what they are. Now with out restating what has already been said.
1 at what generation do you stop going back to your first, or is it death that you stop
2 you are all talking about using a pair what about tripple and quads with only one roo. With yhe understanding that as long as you get enough chicks lets say min of 30 from each hen and did a severe "cull". As long as you are taking the very best less than 5% hold over i would asume that would be ok(thought a certain pairing would throw the best chicks).
3 does it work the same with turkeys.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Wow. $25 is too much for a reasonably decent SQ bird?! I charge $20 for a POL hatchery stock pullet for a backyard pet. Actually, so do the hatcheries. I would pay $50-$100 for a good bird without batting an eye and would strongly consider paying more than that if it was really going to help me! Anyone that thinks $25 is too much for a bird is in the wrong hobby.