Incubating Rhode Island Red Chicks

[LuminousWanderer]

Hello,

I am new to the Forum.

I am currently attempting to hatch some Rhode Island Reds; I am now at Day +23 (6 p.m. GMT) and I think my eggs may be in difficulty.

There are six eggs. I have no previous experience in aviculture at all.

I am using a small digital still-air incubator. Here's a link to a picture of the model, so that you have an idea of what I am working with:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...AhXMvRQKHXTaD4IQ_AUICygC#imgrc=6WWFGvUB6P5wgM:

The incubator requires manual turning, which (per the manufacturer's instructions) involves briefly disconnecting the incubator, then opening the lid to turn the eggs by hand, before replacing the lid and switching the incubator back on.

The incubator seems to work fine and is very easy to use, and there have been no malfunctions whatsoever. I did suffer a general power outage (unrelated to the incubator) for about one hour just before Day +18, but I cannot see that that would have had any significant effect.

The incubator has a temperature indicator and control, but nothing for humidity. The incubator automatically maintains the optimal temperature (38 degrees C/100 degrees F for a still-air incubator) almost all the time, without the need for operator intervention, with the actual temperature varying from the optimal only slightly upwards or downwards.

After each instance of manual turning, the incubator restores optimal temperature quite quickly: I would say well within a minute each time.

I have maintained a drill of turning the eggs three times daily, and in order to maintain humidity, I have added water to the incubator every two days. I candled the eggs at Days +7, +14 and +18, and all seemed fertile, though I have not seen any movement.

Now at Day +23, there is no pipping and I can hear no noise from the eggs, nor is there any movement.

I have tried tapping the eggs and listening for signs of life or watching for movement, but there is no feedback whatsoever.

On Day +22, I subjected the eggs to the Floating Test (for which I followed the instructions here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...iability-for-late-or-overdue-hatching.383525/). All of the eggs passed the Test handsomely, however I did not notice any movement from the eggs that would indicate a viable hatching chick inside.

I may have made one or two novice mistakes during incubation. I have not been using gloves to handle the eggs and I got them dirty. I then wiped them clean, which after undertaking further research appears to be the wrong course of action as it can erode the bloom, making the egg more vulnerable to bacterial infection. I also didn't handle the eggs very sensitively during the aforementioned Floating Test, which could have diminished their viability still further.

I should add that I have looked carefully at the eggs and there are no obvious signs of cracking, and there is no fluid leaking out of any of them.

In view of the above, my questions are:

(i). What, if anything, would you recommend I can do next for a successful hatch of at least some of these eggs?

(ii). How long do you think I should wait before dissecting then disposing of these eggs, if the eggs are not hatching?

(iii). Is there anybody on here who can report of, or knows of, successful hatching with this small model of incubator?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Have you candled to see if something was growing inside?
I would wait another day but as long as the humidity is up, I wouldn't open it.
If nothing happens with an entire hatch, the primary culprits are either temperature or the eggs themselves. Are these eggs from your flock?
I recommend you get and calibrate another reliable thermometer and compare it to the setting/reading on the incubator. Thermostats and thermometers are notoriously inaccurate.

 

[Kiki]

Did I read this correctly...you put eggs in water to float them on day 22??

 

[LuminousWanderer]

Have you candled to see if something was growing inside?

Yes, as well as candling at Days +7, +14 and +18, I also candled earlier today just before the Floating Test (which was also done today, Day +23, not yesterday as I mistakenly stated in my original post).

When I candled today, each egg looked pretty much the same: a large blackness along with a large air sac at the top of the egg. That would seem to me pretty normal, but I stress again that I am completely new to this.

I would wait another day but as long as the humidity is up, I wouldn't open it.

One problem and downside with this model of incubator seems to be that there is no way of maintaining a high humidity without actually going through the drill of disconnecting it, opening the lid, taking the eggs out and pouring the water into the relevant trough, then putting the eggs back in, replacing the lid, and restoring power.

I think the humidity was down by about Day +20, and today after I had completed my Floating Test and candling, I put some hot water in to restore humidity. Unfortunately that step would seem to be unavoidable.

If nothing happens with an entire hatch, the primary culprits are either temperature or the eggs themselves. Are these eggs from your flock?

I am a complete beginner, I don't have a flock, I bought these eggs online. This is partly the reason for my question (iii): I would be interested to know of testimonials from anybody on here confirming that use of these machines can lead to actual hatchings.

I recommend you get and calibrate another reliable thermometer and compare it to the setting/reading on the incubator. Thermostats and thermometers are notoriously inaccurate.

This is fair advice, however in reality I am not working in scientifically-controlled conditions and I suspect it would be near-impossible to achieve a reliable reading using a simple thermometer. Also, in fairness the machine itself does seem functional. My concern isn't that the machine doesn't work - it does - rather it's whether one can actually successfully hatch eggs using it.

Thank you for the welcome.

 

[LuminousWanderer]

Did I read this correctly...you put eggs in water to float them on day 22??

Today, on Day +23, as widely recommended for diagnosing eggs in cases of late hatching.

 

[BantyChooks]

This is fair advice, however in reality I am not working in scientifically-controlled conditions and I suspect it would be near-impossible to achieve a reliable reading using a simple thermometer. Also, in fairness the machine itself does seem functional. My concern isn't that the machine doesn't work, rather it's whether one can actually successfully hatch eggs using it.

Well, you can sure get a whole lot closer to 99.5 with a calibrated regular thermometer than by just not bothering and using the built in. There's been incidences of them being 8*F off or even more.

 

[LuminousWanderer]

Well, you can sure get a whole lot closer to 99.5 with a calibrated regular thermometer than by just not bothering and using the built in. There's been incidences of them being 8*F off or even more.

I will bear this in mind, if I try again. I may also see if I can find a thermometer and check the device as it's currently working, and then report back.

For now, let's assume that the temperature indicators are off, I have not been warming the eggs sufficiently and the shortfall in temperature is significant, does that preclude a successful hatching or should I wait a few days and see what happens?

If I am going to be waiting, what typically do you recommend before giving up? +30 Days? Is there a fixed point at which it is considered that eggs for this breed cannot be viable?

 

[BantyChooks]

To elaborate more on my prior post:

You can hatch eggs in just about anything. Some use buckets with lights, some even use frying pans or heating pads. Eggs are tough. I have no experience with that incubator but I see no reason why it wouldn't provide at least moderate success. I personally built my own incubator out of a cooler and it works very well, better than 90% of storebought incubators.

Did you compare air cells against diagrams? I know you said they were 'large' but that doesn't mean much.

Chicken-and-Duck

• BantyChooks
• Dec 24, 2017

I am not a fan of the float test. It tells you little except whether the embryo is wiggling at that particular moment and at worst can cause issues if the egg has broken the shell but it's too small to detect with the naked eye or candler. At best it tells you as much as a candler does.

I will bear this in mind, if I try again. I may also see if I can find a thermometer and check the device as it's currently working, and then report back.

For now, let's assume that the temperature indicators are off, I have not been warming the eggs sufficiently and the shortfall in temperature is significant, does that preclude a successful hatching or should I wait a few days and see what happens?

If I am going to be waiting, what typically do you recommend before giving up? +30 Days? Is there a fixed point at which it is considered that eggs for this breed cannot be viable?

Thermometers for measuring human body temperature are good, if you can get it to take a reading without opening the incubator, which might be tough.

Some can hatch as late as 25 days give or take a bit in the case of low temperature. Be warned that malformations are possible for survivors. Me, I do not remove eggs until they are 'stinky dead', meaning I am without a doubt certain they are gone. Here is a good link on identifying late-term deaths.
Identifying Lockdown Deaths

I use thermometers meant for a fish tank, and I use five of them. They have been calibrated in ice water (which I know they can be off at a higher temperature) but seeing as they all agree all the time I see little chance they are all off by the same amount. I doubt fitting more than one in is possible in that incubator, though.

 

[LuminousWanderer]

Candling at Day +18 showed normal air sac sizes for chicken eggs, as per the diagram above, and the same when I candled today.

I have checked the incubator with a digital thermometer and the reading just now settled out at 43-degrees C (109.4 F), allowing for a 1-degree C margin of error either way. What, if anything, would you recommend? The incubator does allow manual re-setting, so my first thought would be to lower the temperature accordingly and re-check the temperature readings maybe three times daily from now on, but whether that will salvage the situation is anyone's guess.

I am not particularly interested in becoming a serious chicken breeder, so will probably pass on building my own incubator. If manual incubation doesn't work for me, my next move will be simply to buy live chicks and take it from there.

 

[BantyChooks]

I have checked the incubator with a digital thermometer and the reading just now settled out at 43-degrees C (109.4 F), allowing for a 1-degree C margin of error either way. What, if anything, would you recommend? The incubator does allow manual re-setting, so my first thought would be to lower the temperature accordingly and re-check the temperature readings maybe three times daily from now on, but whether that will salvage the situation is anyone's guess.

43! Oh my. That would do it. Did you calibrate the thermometer you used? I know, I know, it can be off at one end and right at the other, but it gives a sort of baseline peace of mind if you have no other proof or idea that that one is correct either.

Yes, lower it, but I quite doubt they have hope if the temperature was truly that high or close to it. I accidentally ran at a temperature of 40.5C for my first hatch, and they did indeed all die, but mostly in the first five days. Interestingly enough some looked upon candling like they made it full term before dying but when eggtopsies were done they had little development, only dark fluid.