INCUBATING w/FRIENDS! w/Sally Sunshine Shipped Eggs No problem!

[Akrnaf2]

Iet us make an intellectual exercise :

Let say that we all become vegans and stop eating animals and we let them go free in the wild .

The out come:

1. 10s of billions of animal suffering from lack of food dying an agonizing death.

2. We need to grow much much more plants and that is equal to more habitat destruction and 10s billions of little animal dying so we have reached to the same outcome!

And from a evolutionary aspect chicken are A staggering success!

There's not a chance on this earth that i'd become a vegan.

I'm already gluten free AND allergic to eggs. I cannot give up meat. I eat meat at least 2x a day.

I am not allergic to anything and aldo really try to do that!

 

[BullChick]

I was reading about this not too long ago... I don't understand how they can do that, or how insurances would want to even cover it.

Dh was on a prescription that was over $1,000/month. Copay was $5

 

[kajira]

Dh was on a prescription that was over $1,000/month. Copay was $5

That's not a bad copay.

My thyroid meds are like 15-20 a month per bottle and I need 2, because they don't make the half-dose I use

 

[casportpony]

 
Correct wormers, at the correct dose. Most info on the web is telling people to give too little. Or they think they're being clever by assuming that the goat or cattle dose of something is what chickens should get, which is not true in most cases.

All wormer doses can be found here:
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/18.pdf
http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/03/09_therapeutic_agents.pdf

and books like Plumb's Vet Drug Handbook and Vererinary Parasitologly Reference Manual. Compare all, find the most common, rule out the highs and the lows and bingo, there is your dose. 

-Kathy

i was more talking about the mammals and worming
my horse had tape worms, vet told me to use Quest 
OMG the people telling me not to use it because it killed a horse
little did they know and not do their fact checking, some idiot OD'd her Mini 

*Much* narrower safety margin with Quest (moxidectin). I think the documented dose for almost all farm animals and birds is 0.2 mg/kg which I think is 0.0045 ml per pound. How much does a mini weigh? 200? 300? Horses get 0.45 ml per 100 pounds, so very easy to OD a mini, small pony, or a foal.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

 

i was more talking about the mammals and worming
my horse had tape worms, vet told me to use Quest 
OMG the people telling me not to use it because it killed a horse
little did they know and not do their fact checking, some idiot OD'd her Mini 

My husband luckily handles most of the deworming, and he's very, very good at math. We also give monthly flea/tick prevention and heart worm meds to the dogs. He weighs the dogs each month before giving doses, in order to be careful. I definitely lucked out with him when it comes to helping me out with the animals.

Now, if a chicken were to die, he'd shrug and say whatever. although when my daughters favorite rooster died, he did give it a funeral for her. LOL 

The math is key... I used to rely on DH to do it for me, but decided would be best to dust off my brain and remember what I learned in school.

Nice that he did a funeral for her.

-Kathy

 

[ChickenCanoe]

@Sally Sunshine Good morning!

Hey, if I do go ahead and order those ducks/turkey poults next monday.... what should I feed them, since I assume medicated chick starter's not ideal for turkeys and ducks.

I'm trying to figure out what I need to do differently to have the best chance of them surviving.

The amprolium in chick starter is at an acceptable range for ducklings but they'll need more protein initially and the ducklings will need higher niacin than what is in chick starter.
The ducklings should have about 22% protein for the first couple weeks. After that, the 18% in the starter is adequate.
The turkeys on the other hand, should have much higher protein for longer. They need 28% for the first 6-8 weeks.
It is possible to raise both on chick starter and I know people that have done it but their performance will be poorer than it should be.

Game bird starter can be found that is around 27-28% crude protein or you could mix some fishmeal with a 20-22% protein feed. They should ideally be raised separately.


Here's a good feeding guide for waterfowl.
http://www.metzerfarms.com/NutritionalRequirements.cfm?CustID=13370770

I KNOW if I put 24 silkie eggs in my incubator, my husband's going to probably strangle me, if a good # of them hatch. the lady who runs the 4h club here, told my daughter and me, that silkie's and Easter Egger chicks, would sell like hot cakes, since there's no one here locally that has either of them.

...

Both should sell well this time of year since their availability is lower now.

Sadly there is already so much misinformation out there that my opinion is very unlikely to matter to people like the chicken chick, or Gail Damerow, author of the Chicken Health Hand Book, which also has lost of worming misinformation.

-Kathy

I know that misinformation peeves you but I still find it an incredibly valuable resource I recommend every chicken owner have on their bookshelf.

I think you should write a book that has the correct worming information.

X2
I've been asked to write a book on Penedesencas. If only I could find the time. Perhaps I could if I didn't spend so much time on this site.

Those pages from her book I found using ebooks, so I would need to buy a copy to do it properly. And those are from her 2nd edition, which I think is the most recent.
...

-Kathy

There were only two editions and the second was released last year if memory serves.

I find it very head scratching that different developed countries have different withdrawal periods for the same type of medications.

A couple hundred different regulating agencies with different protocols working with different research. If the world had one government, that wouldn't be the case but who wants that?

 

[Akrnaf2]

 
@Sally Sunshine
 Good morning!

Hey, if I do go ahead and order those ducks/turkey poults next monday.... what should I feed them, since I assume medicated chick starter's not ideal for turkeys and ducks.

I'm trying to figure out what I need to do differently to have the best chance of them surviving.

The amprolium in chick starter is at an acceptable range for ducklings but they'll need more protein initially and the ducklings will need higher niacin than what is in chick starter.
The ducklings should have about 22% protein for the first couple weeks. After that, the 18% in the starter is adequate.
The turkeys on the other hand, should have much higher protein for longer. They need 28% for the first 6-8 weeks.
It is possible to raise both on chick starter and I know people that have done it but their performance will be poorer than it could be.


Here's a good feeding guide for waterfowl.
http://www.metzerfarms.com/NutritionalRequirements.cfm?CustID=13370770

 
I KNOW if I put 24 silkie eggs in my incubator, my husband's going to probably strangle me, if a good # of them hatch. the lady who runs the 4h club here, told my daughter and me, that silkie's and Easter Egger chicks, would sell like hot cakes, since there's no one here locally that has either of them.

...

Both should sell well this time of year since their availability is lower now.

 
Sadly there is already so much misinformation out there that my opinion is very unlikely to matter to people like the chicken chick, or Gail Damerow, author of the Chicken Health Hand Book, which also has lost of worming misinformation.

-Kathy

I know that misinformation peeves you but I still find it an incredibly valuable resource I recommend every chicken owner have on their bookshelf.

 
I think you should write a book that has the correct worming information.

X2
I've been asked to write a book on Penedesencas. If only I could find the time. Perhaps I could if I didn't spend so much time on this site.

Those pages from her book I found using ebooks, so I would need to buy a copy to do it properly. And those are from her 2nd edition, which I think is the most recent.

...


-Kathy

There were only two editions and the second was released last year if memory serves.

 
I find it very head scratching that different developed countries have different withdrawal periods for the same type of medications.

A couple different regulating agencies with different protocols working with different research. If the world had one government, that wouldn't be the case but who wants that?

Isis? Alexander the great? Gingis chan? Hitler ימח שמו וזכרו,?

 

[kajira]

The math is key... I used to rely on DH to do it for me, but decided would be best to dust off my brain and remember what I learned in school.

Nice that he did a funeral for her.

-Kathy

I find that by making him be involved by doing the math and stuff... he pays more attention to things that matter to the rest of us. LOL

 

[ChickenCanoe]

There's way to much crap about all these chemicals, with out long-term studies showing what the risks are to people when we use them in animals.

We don't use pesticides here, and I wish we had more natural wormers for the chickens and other animals. I'm not a fan of putting chemicals into my animals unless I absolutely have too

Quote:

Natural would be nice, but there aren't *any* effective "natural wormers", but there are hundreds of posts from people making claims about garlic, pumpkin seeds, etc. If you have a dog, cat, or human with worms, what do you do? Same for human head lice, what would you use?

-Kathy

I've used Molly's Herbals 2 stage wormer.
I almost never worm a bird but I'm not living in a climate conducive to worms year round.
http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/
The next time I use it, I want to do fecals both before and after.

Iet us make an intellectual exercise :
Let say that we all become vegans and stop eating animals and we let them go free in the wild .
The out come:
1. 10s of billions of animal suffering from lack of food dying an agonizing death.
2. We need to grow much much more plants and that is equal to more habitat destruction and 10s billions of little animal dying so we have reached to the same outcome!
And from a evolutionary aspect chicken are A staggering success!

I agree with most of that but the one thing I'm not sure about is that we would need to grow more plants. Much different types of plants but not more. To the best of my knowledge, the acreage needed to grow feed for food animals is greater than that needed to produce an equal calorie and nutritional balance for humans.
I'm not advocating for a meat free society. I'm a devout paleo person and eat a lot of meat.

i see only one problem with this, if you deworm too often they build up immunity to the drugs so be careful doing it too often
i only do it when needed, and have fecals done prior to to use the right wormers

X2
One should always know if there is a problem before acting and then to frequently change the anthelmintic to prevent the worms becoming immune which can happen in as little as 6 generations.

I'm watching the news, and just saw the report on Epi pens.

Mylan says they are only making about $50 per pen.
The cost went from $94/2pk in 2007 when the company took over, to (hold your eyeballs in!) $609!

Hence the House of Representative hearings yesterday and the investigation of the company for violation of anti-trust laws.

I was reading about this not too long ago... I don't understand how they can do that, or how insurances would want to even cover it.

I think some insurance companies are now declining to cover it.

I find that by making him be involved by doing the math and stuff... he pays more attention to things that matter to the rest of us. LOL

My wife locks up the chickens on Thursdays when I'm shooting pool. Even though that's her only input to the process, I think that helps her think about their well being.

 

[casportpony]

Quote: Mine is the same.

-Kathy