Inheritence of Peach

[Arbor]

already planning on the Midnight bronze combo next year as well as Bronze opal. I presently have a young male F1 from Opal x bronze from this years hatch. I also believe that Taupe may be the combination of Purple and opal, and will be trying this one in the future. It is quite something to think of all the colour combos that may be possible!!

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
If you are trying to combine two autosomal recessive colors (bronze, opal, midnight, charcoal, jade, taupe), you will need to have the gene in each parent in order to have a chance at having offspring that are visual for both. If you have only one, you won't have visuals in the next generation.

IB split Opal and Bronze X Bronze =

1/4 IB split Bronze

1/4 IB split Bronze and Opal

1/4 Bronze

1/4 Bronze split Opal

You won't be able to tell which are split to Opal and which aren't.


IB split Opal and Bronze X Opal =

1/4 IB split Opal

1/4 IB split Bronze and Opal

1/4 Opal

1/4 Opal split Bronze

Again, you won't be able to tell which are split to Bronze and which aren't. If you wanted visuals in the second generation, you'd need to pair a male IB split Opal and Bronze X female IB split Opal and Bronze. If you used two unrelated Opal females with one unrelated Bronze male (or vice versa), you could pair half-siblings together, and lessen the degree of inbreeding to get your F2's.

What you'd need to do is get a female that is split to Bronze and Opal, and pair her to your male. If you bred the two together, then 1/16 would be Bronze Opal (with equal probability of being male or female). 3/16 will be Bronze (and 2 of these will also be split to Opal, but you wouldn't know by looking), 3/16 would be Opal (and 2 of these will also be split to Opal, but you wouldn't know by looking), and the rest will be IB (some split to Opal, some to Bronze, some to both, some to neither).

Once you get birds that are Bronze Opal, you can outcross to unrelated birds that are Bronze or Opal. Those offspring will be colored like the single-color parent, but be split to the other.

Bronze Opal X Opal = 100% Opal split Bronze.

Bronze Opal X Bronze = 100% Bronze split Opal.


You can then breed back to the Bronze Opal.

Bronze Opal X Bronze split Opal = 50% Bronze Opal, 50% Bronze split Opal

Bronze Opal X Opal split Bronze = 50% Bronze Opal, 50% Opal split Bronze


If you continue to choose an unrelated Bronze or Opal for outcrossing, you will minimize inbreeding.

You'll have to hatch a bunch of babies to get your first visual, but after that, your odds go up of getting more.

If you try combining one of the sex-linked colors (Purple, Cameo, Peach, Violetta) with an autosomal recessive color, you could do it in the second generation by using a first-generation male with females of the autosomal recessive color. In the below example, you can switch Purple with Cameo or Peach or Violetta, and you can switch Bronze with any of the other recessive colors.


IB split Purple and Bronze X Bronze =

1/8 male Bronze split Purple

1/8 male IB split Bronze and Purple

1/8 male Bronze

1/8 male IB split Bronze

1/8 female Bronze

1/8 female IB split Bronze

1/8 female Bronze Purple

1/8 female Purple split Bronze


It will take a bunch of pen space, and a few years, but, hey, it'll be 2020 in nine years whether you start this or not. And based on the feedback I've gotten when I first asked if anyone tried this, you'll be one of the first. Kinda cool, huh?


Clifton Nicholson sent me some pics of his Purple Bronze -- they look a lot like Opals, but with more iridescence in the neck. Opals have intermediate iridescence -- not as "shiny" as IB, Bronze, Purple, Midnight and Jade, but more "shiny" than Cameo, Peach and Charcoal. If you want to try combining colors, I would suggest that you keep iridescent with iridescent, since the "matte-finish" of the others might make the color less distinctive. The barring on the wings was a light milk chocolate brown, and the legs and belly were a darker chocolate brown -- not black as in Opals. The Train has the "Bronze motif" but in a lighter, faded set of hues, and the eyespots resemble those of the regular Purple. He asked me not to share the pics, which I must honor, but I suspect he is preparing to submit an article to the UPA in the near future (hopefully...), so we can see for ourselves.


Good luck...I'll be looking you up in a few years to buy some.

P.S. To anyone willing to try, I'd be more than happy to advise from a genetic standpoint, and give probabilities of outcomes. I'm just trying to help you make something cool.

P.P.S. Thanks for correcting me on the inheritance mode of Violetta, team!

 

[deerman]

you are base all this on the cross over gene....and about 9 years of work. I would said ok to try a few, but alot of peafowl breeders should leave this to people that understand genetic. If not alot of years to spent to find out a mistake was may, plus need perfect recorder keeping, and ID of each chick.


Not that I dont think anyone should try, but I know very few peafowl breeders , that keep that good of records , one chick from a hen that had been with another male weeks before could cost years of work.

This looks good on paper, but thats alot of work and years of time........only on a guess.

 

[SuperPeacockman]

AquaEyes I thought Violeta is sex linked.

 

[SuperPeacockman]

Yes I just checked my emails from George Conner, it is sex-linked.

 

[deerman]

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Yes it is....one of 4 colors

 

[DMFarm]

Quote:
Burt you are so right he make it sound so easy but you can spend years of breeding split and never get any new mutation. I have been breeding splits out of two colors sence 03 and after years of breeding and 100's of peachicks out of this breeding nothing new. You can do it on paper and get all kinds of new mutations but in the real life it may or may not happen. Just like breeding a charcoal male to a split hen on paper you should get 50% charcoal color peachicks and 50% splits but that want happen you are lucky to get 1 charcoal out of ever 7 or 8 chicks hatch. I have been working on charcoal silver pieds I have the splits to produce them 1 out of 16 should be silver pied but have never hatch one yet. If someone want to spend years breeding splits go for it.

 

[AquaEyes]

Ah, ok...wasn't sure...I'll correct that in my original post.


As for crossover...that just explains how it is possible for one Z chromosome to have two mutations on it. Crossover is not necessary to combine two mutations which exist on different chromosomes. Combining a Midnight Bronze would be no more difficult than combining a Bronze Blackshoulder -- they are both examples of two recessive mutations carried homozygously in the same bird. A gene is a gene...a recessive color is inherited the same way as a recessive pattern.

ETA -- How long did it take to introduce "Silver Pied" into all the colors available? Did that take careful record-keeping?

Clifton Nicholson must have had the same curiosity about crossing colors many years ago, when he paired the birds that bred the first Peach. And he has continued into further generations, successfully combining Bronze and Purple -- so there really isn't a debate anymore as to whether it's possible or not, since it already has been done. I'm just trying to outline a plan for how it can be done, for those who want to try.

 

[AquaEyes]

Ahem....Gentlemen, apparently Clifton is going public with his new combined-colors peafowl. I no longer need to debate on and on that it's possible, because he posted a picture on his website. He has named the Bronze-Purple combination "Indigo." And everything is just as I've been saying all this time.


Here is his article on combining colors.


This is not an "I told you so." This is a "hey, it works...now let's try it ourselves!!!"


Come on, guys...make me some pretty peafowl for when I'm able to have them in a few years!

Indigo Peacock and Peahens

 

[Fowler Hencock]

Quote:
If you are trying to combine two autosomal recessive colors (bronze, opal, midnight, charcoal, jade, taupe), you will need to have the gene in each parent in order to have a chance at having offspring that are visual for both. If you have only one, you won't have visuals in the next generation.

So are you saying that if you breed a bronze to an opal, all the chicks may not be split to both bronze and opal?

We are in the unique situation of having one mature opal cock and one mature bronze hen. The rest of our breeding age birds are either IB, IB BS, or white. Next year will be our first year putting them in separate pens, so the plan was to pen the opal and the bronze together and hatch out all their eggs, and make a lot of IB split to opal and bronze. Then breed them back to the parents in two years, in order to get more opal and bronze. We do have some unrelated bronze and opal chicks this year who will be ready for breeding in two years or so to add to the mix. I have always wondered if bronze to opal could possibly create something new.