Insulation and the coop!

[Cohl0406]

Yes this happened to me this morning at 10 am. It was my fault for putting the light in their coop. I thought I was doing right by them to ensure they didn't get to cold as the temps dropped into the 20s and we live in texas where this is rare. We will get more chickens but their form of warmth will be themselves huddled closely in a closed coop free from draft. Though that is not my picture it happened in our garage (we thought it would assist with keeping the draft off them) my thoughts is that they will always fair better with just themselves and some hay or wood shavings for warmth. I'll never again put anything electric in a chicken coop.

 

[RonP]

no where have I ever said I would heat and not ventilate my coop it is possible to do both, sure you will lose some heat but you will still be able to get the temperatures up quite a bit a still maintain ventilation. I would not be trying to maintain room temperature in the coop I would strive for getting the temp well above zero. I have a normal rate of lay and don't lose eggs to freezing as long as it stays above 5-10 degrees

With proper ventilation, you will achieve an updraft.

Warm humid air rises and exits well above the birds roosting level.

I have 10 birds, 8'x8' floor space for them in deep litter pine shavings, 17 square feet draft free ventilation, divided at all levels within a 16'x16' repurposed 40 year old cedar shed. They have access to a 14'x14' foot secured run, door open 24/7.

I heat their water using a modified popcorn tin, supplement their lighting, and heat their nesting boxes to help eliminate frozen eggs.

No additional heat. Very happy and healthy flock.

Quick search tells me cold hardy breeds are good to -42F!


How would the heat from a lamp reach the birds without it being dangerously close?

Can you share your situation so others can compare?

Most won't know how to do it properly to avoid the accidents

 

[blucoondawg]

With proper ventilation, you will achieve an updraft.

Warm humid air rises and exits well above the birds roosting level.

I have 10 birds, 8'x8' floor space for them in deep litter pine shavings, 17 square feet draft free ventilation, divided at all levels within a 16'x16' repurposed 40 year old cedar shed. They have access to a 14'x14' foot secured run, door open 24/7.

I heat their water using a modified popcorn tin, supplement their lighting, and heat their nesting boxes to help eliminate frozen eggs.

No additional heat. Very happy and healthy flock.

Quick search tells me cold hardy breeds are good to -42F!


How would the heat from a lamp reach the birds without it being dangerously close?

Can you share your situation so others can compare? 

Most won't know how to do it properly to avoid the accidents    

you can do all the Google searches you like and find all sorts of facts about all sorts of things some of which will be conflicting much as there is conflicting information on many subjects on this very forum.
I am sure a chicken can live in -42 degrees, I am also sure that living in extreme cold temperatures is harder on birds and mammals. Even in above zero temps chickens will consume much more food per day then in warm weather, some will stop laying or slow down, I have some who will start to eat eggs in extreme temps but never bother an egg in warmer weather, I have lost some birds in cold weather, none in warm. My opinions are based on my experiences with keeping chickens between myself and my dad's flock when I was a kid, not so much from internet searches.

As far as the heat reaching the birds without it being dangerously close, that is not an issue, how does the heat reach the humans in a home with a radiant heat system without the register being dangerously close? the birds get the heat because they live in the coop that is being heated, the heat will make the interior temperature of the coop much warmer than the subzero temps outside. The light bulb is screwed into a light fixture on the ceiling there is no way it can be dangerously close to the chickens or anything else. My coop is a 12x12 shed with an 8 ft ceiling in front and 6 ft in back. I would not use this sort of setup in the tiny rabbit hutch type coops where the heat source would be close to the birds or combustibles.

 

[RonP]

As far as the heat reaching the birds without it being dangerously close, that is not an issue, how does the heat reach the humans in a home with a radiant heat system without the register being dangerously close? the birds get the heat because they live in the coop that is being heated, the heat will make the interior temperature of the coop much warmer than the subzero temps outside. The light bulb is screwed into a light fixture on the ceiling there is no way it can be dangerously close to the chickens or anything else. My coop is a 12x12 shed with an 8 ft ceiling in front and 6 ft in back. I would not use this sort of setup in the tiny rabbit hutch type coops where the heat source would be close to the birds or combustibles.

Ok, most readers on this forum do not have the electrical expertise as some. I know you have many years experience working in the trade.

I'm not going to debate with you the merits of additional heat. There certainly are circumstances that additional heat could be beneficial.

My original post was to warn those not as knowledgeable as some, the inherent dangers of using heat bulbs.

A 250 Watt bulb will have a surface temperature in excess of 800F

The auto-ignition temperatures of paper is ~ 450F

800F could easily ignite cellulose, the essence of all wood and paper products!

I use artificial lighting in my coop. I use low wattage LED bulbs.

I would not be comfortable recommending the use of candles in a coop even though they can and were used for hundreds of years.

Readers should know the dangers, and that they are playing with fire, especially when it isn't quite so obvious...

Hope this helps.

 

[blucoondawg]

Ok, most readers on this forum do not have the electrical expertise as some. I know you have many years experience working in the trade. 

I'm not going to debate with you the merits of additional heat. There certainly are circumstances that additional heat could be beneficial.

My original post was to warn those not as knowledgeable as some, the inherent dangers of using heat bulbs.

A 250 Watt bulb will have a surface temperature in excess of 800F

The auto-ignition temperatures of paper is ~ 450F

800F could easily ignite cellulose (the essence of all wood and paper products)!

I use artificial lighting in my coop. I use low wattage LED bulbs.

I would not be comfortable recommending the use of candles in a coop even though they can and were used for hundreds of years.  

Readers should know the dangers, and that they are playing with fire, especially when it isn't quite so obvious...

I am not trying to debate you, you do what you like I couldn't care less, my point is there is a right and wrong way to do things and explaining the right way to do it is far more useful to someone who doesn't know than repeated lecturing "heat lamps are the boogeyman and will burn your coop down", having electrician experience is not necessary either, common sense and they ability to go to a building supply yard and ask the right questions or look at a free pamphlet or buy a cheap book such as wiring 123 is all that is needed.

I would much rather explain to people that there is a safe way to do this than repeatedly tell them they will burn their coop down, you can tell them that all you like and will still have those who do it anyway because they're stubborn and want the heat and they will use a cheap temporary method and burn their coop, I would rather suggest that there is a far safer relatively low cost alternative that will prevent a lot of possible heartache and trouble. Not to mention maybe some of these people will learn something in the process and become that much more self sufficient in their every day lives.

I know people with wood burning stoves to heat their coops who have never had a fire, that is far more dangerous than a lightbulb. The surface temperatures on the flue of a wood stove far exceed that of a light bulb. There are also alternatives to the 250w heat lamp, do you realize they also have 100w heat lamps and that really any incandescent light bulb can be used as a heat lamp? Yes people should know the dangers, the dangers are spread all over the internet, there is no harm in explaining the dangers in depth and explaining ways to avoid these dangers.


Some people have legitmate reasons for providing heat, some do not, everyone's situation is different. There are ways to do just about anything safely if you want to go through a little extra work, I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to discredit my information with your arguments, you don't want heat, then don't heat in the meantime I will continue to explain to people that they likely won't need heat but if they want it this is a safer alternative.

I also don't need your bold print lectures on ventilation and heat bulbs or anything else, we've had chickens almost my whole life, quite large flocks, and never burnt a coop or had a large amount of unhealthy or randomly dying birds so I think my information is pretty credible and I will continue to share it with others.

 

[RonP]

• blucoondawg, you seem angry and have taken my comments as a personal slur.

I apologise if this is so, for it was not my intention to do so.

Your expertise, and willingness to share, is of great value.

Thank you, Ron.

 

[blucoondawg]

I am not angry I don't put that much effort into online forums lol

 

[yellowchicks]

We have a 4'x4' insulated coop with 4 chickens. I would would say that the inside temperature and the humidity level of the coop are practically the same as the outside ambiance condition in the winter. That's because the coop is very well ventilated, we control the ventilation by opening or lowering the windows accordingly. The advantage with an insulated coop is that the floor and the walls are not frigid, especially for the chicken on the ends of the roost that are next to the walls at night. The eggs are also less likely to be frozen because of the insulated nest box.

For young chicks, they do need heat, but once they grew feather, they really can stay warm in very cold weather as long as the air is dry and calm. I checked my girls using an infrared thermometer at nights because I do get worried like all other chicken parents. The chickens fluffed up like a ball and maintain a normal body temperature, they are fine.

In turns of using artificial heat source, if there is a safe way to keep the water from freezing, that's my biggest concern besides keeping the chickens warm. Inside the coop with so much flame-able materials (feather, bedding, dust), it is best to keep the heat source out of there, but probably should have a backup plan for extreme conditions. Even though we have a household of engineers here, fully knowledgeable in how to properly wire up heat sources, we believe that chickens can protect themselves in the cold, but they can't protect themselves from fire.

 

[blucoondawg]

We have a 4'x4' insulated coop with 4 chickens. I would would say that the inside temperature and the humidity level of the coop are practically the same as the outside ambiance condition in the winter. That's because the coop is very well ventilated, we control the ventilation by opening or lowering the windows accordingly. The advantage with an insulated coop is that the floor and the walls are not frigid, especially for the chicken on the ends of the roost that are next to the walls at night. The eggs are also less likely to be frozen because of the insulated nest box.

For young chicks, they do need heat, but once they grew feather, they really can stay warm in very cold weather as long as the air is dry and calm. I checked my girls using an infrared thermometer at nights because I do get worried like all other chicken parents. The chickens fluffed up like a ball and maintain a normal body temperature, they are fine.

In turns of using artificial heat source, if there is a safe way to keep the water from freezing, that's my biggest concern besides keeping the chickens warm. Inside the coop with so much flame-able materials (feather, bedding, dust), it is best to keep the heat source out of there, but probably should have a backup plan for extreme conditions. Even though we have a household of engineers here, fully knowledgeable in how to properly wire up heat sources, we believe that chickens can protect themselves in the cold, but they can't protect themselves from fire.

that is the opinion many people have, a properly done heat setup is no more dangerous than your water heater, both are electric and can cause fire if not done properly. Of course that is my opinion. I have read many of the coop fire threads and am hard pressed to find one that doesn't involve a clamp type temporary light or other such device, eliminating that will get rid of a huge percentage of the catastrophies, of course no electricity at all is even safer, that is a choice for each individual situation

 

[Heme]

Sorry for your loss! As for my lamp, I took off the original CLAMP and made a fixed based lamp that attached to the frame. I left the Face Guard attached to keep the girls from flying into the lamp. The lamp is ridged and it will not lay on any area where the hay or floor material are within its distance.

I use the lamp from Dusk to Dawn (automatic) and direct it at the girls sleeping quarters. I agree that under normal conditions the lamps are not necessary as Chickens lived for years before heat lamps were discovered; and they seemed to manage ok; however, the lamp was two-fold. Not just to heat the coop, but it kept the WATER from freezing. Somewhat a 2 for 1 deal.