Integration Issues

[tef6774]

I know this has been discussed a million times before, but I am seeking some constructive advice.

Backstory: We successfully merged two flocks together last spring (5 mixed and 4 red-sexed links). Went with the standard process. Separation for a few weeks and then integration. Relatively no issues. Everyone is happy and healthy. I do not know the dimensions of the coop and run, but it is big enough for all of them with extra space for each chicken.

Problem: We just introduced two new red-sexed links (same process). They are younger, but the same size as the rest. The original red-sexed links are not having it. They are not necessarily attacking the new ones, but they are pretty rough when putting them in their place. If they stray to close or are feeding in their general areas they get it pretty bad. Since they are younger they have found perches out of the way for safety and can go under the coop away from the others. However, they stay on their perches ALL day and do not leave. One will not roost at night and will stay under the coop. The other stays in the coop until chased out. We also added a rooster last week in hopes to cooling everyone out. If the new ones get closer to the rooster the others will leave them alone, but you know he is a rooster, so he is not always super delicate with the new ones. He does not attack them or hurt them. However, he has not gotten to the point where he is breaking up any fights. Although he is still relatively new.

Question: Is it better to keep them separated outside the coop or to let them stick it out in the main coop. We had them in dog crates in the middle of the coop which they were very happy with, but that is not a long-term solution. I feel badly for them because they are clearly not happy and nervous, but I also feel that the longer they are separated from the main flock the harder it will be. They do have safe places to hide to but are not totally immune. They are clear from the bullies on their perches, but stay there entire day.

 

[Yardmom]

Can you get dimensions and maybe some pictures of your setup. Do you have multiple feed and water station where the chickens cannot see from one to the other?

 

[tef6774]

Can you get dimensions and maybe some pictures of your setup. Do you have multiple feed and water station where the chickens cannot see from one to the other?

Thanks for the reply. The coop is 10x13 for 12 chickens. About 10 square feet per chicken. I don't have pictures at the moment. We have multiple feeders and water, but not hidden. The run is a basic rectangle, with different level perches scattered about, roosting style bars at various height levels.

 

[Ridgerunner]

They are younger, but the same size as the rest.

Have you heard the saying "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"? Size doesn't mean that much with chickens either. There are plenty of cases where bantams totally dominate full sized fowl.

How old are the two? Are they laying yet? Age, or rather maturity, can make a huge difference in how they interact. They can mature at different rates but age is an indicator. I find that my pullets tend to form a separate sub-flock and avoid the adult hens until they start to lay. Laying seems to introduce them to adult acceptance.

If they stray to close or are feeding in their general areas they get it pretty bad.

Mature hens outrank immature pullets in the pecking order. If the immature invade their private space they are likely to peck them. It usually doesn't take long for the juveniles to learn to avoid the adults. It is also pretty common for older hens to bully the juveniles by keeping them away from food and water. It sounds like this is what is happening with yours.

They are clear from the bullies on their perches, but stay there entire day.

Very common. They are avoiding the adults.

How big is that run? Can the two new ones stay in it without invading the personal space of the other 9? If you follow that 10 square feet per chicken "rule" often quoted on here, probably not.

So what can you do? Give them as much room as you can. Adding space is usually not easy. But you can improve the quality of what space you have by adding "clutter". That's things they can hide under, behind, or over. You want to break the line of sight or put them out of reach. Your perches are putting them out of reach. Some other common types of clutter would be to lean a pallet or something against the fence so they can get behind it. Secure it so the wind can't blow it over. Put something up on blocks that they can get under. Again a pallet can work but I saw someone use an old satellite dish. Whatever you have handy. Or just something laying on the ground to break line of sight. Somebody on here uses a chair that they can turn over to sit in when spending time with the chickens. You turn it over when you leave so they don't perch and poop on it where you will be sitting.

Widely separated food and water stations can help stop the bullying, especially if you break the line of sight between them. Maybe in the coop and one or two in the run.

I personally don't care where they sleep as long as it is somewhere predator safe and not in my nests. My only goal for integration is that no one gets hurt. All that other stuff of becoming one big happy flock will work itself out when they mature.

People go through this all of the time, usually successfully. It can be stressful though. Good luck!

 

[tef6774]

Have you heard the saying "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"? Size doesn't mean that much with chickens either. There are plenty of cases where bantams totally dominate full sized fowl.

How old are the two? Are they laying yet? Age, or rather maturity, can make a huge difference in how they interact. They can mature at different rates but age is an indicator. I find that my pullets tend to form a separate sub-flock and avoid the adult hens until they start to lay. Laying seems to introduce them to adult acceptance.


Mature hens outrank immature pullets in the pecking order. If the immature invade their private space they are likely to peck them. It usually doesn't take long for the juveniles to learn to avoid the adults. It is also pretty common for older hens to bully the juveniles by keeping them away from food and water. It sounds like this is what is happening with yours.


Very common. They are avoiding the adults.

How big is that run? Can the two new ones stay in it without invading the personal space of the other 9? If you follow that 10 square feet per chicken "rule" often quoted on here, probably not.

So what can you do? Give them as much room as you can. Adding space is usually not easy. But you can improve the quality of what space you have by adding "clutter". That's things they can hide under, behind, or over. You want to break the line of sight or put them out of reach. Your perches are putting them out of reach. Some other common types of clutter would be to lean a pallet or something against the fence so they can get behind it. Secure it so the wind can't blow it over. Put something up on blocks that they can get under. Again a pallet can work but I saw someone use an old satellite dish. Whatever you have handy. Or just something laying on the ground to break line of sight. Somebody on here uses a chair that they can turn over to sit in when spending time with the chickens. You turn it over when you leave so they don't perch and poop on it where you will be sitting.

Widely separated food and water stations can help stop the bullying, especially if you break the line of sight between them. Maybe in the coop and one or two in the run.

I personally don't care where they sleep as long as it is somewhere predator safe and not in my nests. My only goal for integration is that no one gets hurt. All that other stuff of becoming one big happy flock will work itself out when they mature.

People go through this all of the time, usually successfully. It can be stressful though. Good luck!

Thanks for this. I appreciate the advice. Just a follow-up question. I am debating about fencing off a section of the run. They have been sectioned off now for about 2 weeks. Re-introduced yesterday with the same results. Should I fence off or let them get on with integration with some of the steps you outline?

Also, they are not laying yet.

 

[McChooky]

My Australorps and sapphire gems were introduced to my flock in a dog crate at 2 weeks in a covered run( predator proof)I sectioned off part of the run for the chicks at 4 weeks using plain old chicken wire( they ended up spending all whole winter in there)They've only recently started laying and roost in the coop now .They were twice the size of my adult flock at 3 months old.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Should I fence off or let them get on with integration with some of the steps you outline?

You could do it either way. My brooder is in the coop, the chicks go in there on Day 1 so they essentially grow up with the flock. I have over 3,000 square feet available to them outside and weather they can all be outside all day every day. For me, integration is as easy as it gets. You are not in that situation.

How inconvenient would it be for you to isolate them, both building a pen and the daily maintenance of food, water, and poop management? Plenty of people do it that way. Or as long as no one is being hurt, you can let them try to work it out, though some more clutter and fed and water stations would be good. There is no one way that is the right way where every other way is wrong, just ways that work for you.

I consider your comfort and convenience to be a high priority. Would one way reduce your worry and/or work load?