Integration not going too well

[Victoria_S]

Hi everyone!

I have 2 cream legbar hens which are about a year old, and am trying to integrate 4 7-week olds with them. I have done the playpen method for more than a week, and have tried several times to put them together, but the bullying is getting worse. I distract the hens with treats when I put the chicks in, but as soon as the treats run out, the older hens tag team the little ones. Could it be that the run size is too small? It is about 7 ft by 3 ft. We are currently waiting for a bigger run to arrive. Should I continue the playpen method and wait to integrate until the new run arrives (~3 weeks)? Is there anything I can do to make the 2 older ones less aggressive? I know that it is natural for them to peck the younger chicks and put them into their place but this bullying seems excessive and my little faverolle was bleeding a bit from right above the beak (she is ok though). Also, I would introduce them to each other free-range, but the hawks are so bad by my house that even our small dogs have been swooped at, so free ranging is not really an option for me.

Thank you, any help is appreciated!

 

[rosemarythyme]

Not sure what the playpen method is.

Yes your run is too small for the number of birds. At a bare minimum you need 60 sq ft (3x what you have) and that would be for a well integrated flock, which yours is not. How big is the new run space going to be? I'd personally recommend a minimum of 100 sq ft even for a smaller flock, due to the fact that stuff like extra feeders and obstacles to provide needed hiding spots for babies will take up space, no matter how many/few birds you have.

 

[aart]

Yes, run is too small.......wonders about coop too.
Dimensions and pics of coop and run would help here.

Here's some tips that might help....
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.
Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/

 

[Victoria_S]

Not sure what the playpen method is.

Yes your run is too small for the number of birds. At a bare minimum you need 60 sq ft (3x what you have) and that would be for a well integrated flock, which yours is not. How big is the new run space going to be? I'd personally recommend a minimum of 100 sq ft even for a smaller flock, due to the fact that stuff like extra feeders and obstacles to provide needed hiding spots for babies will take up space, no matter how many/few birds you have.

Hi!

Thank you for your response! And what I meant by playpen is that I have the chicks next to the older hens in a separate playpen flush next to the run so the older hens can see them but not get to them. The new run will be 10x20, so 200 sq ft.

 

[Victoria_S]

Yes, run is too small.......wonders about coop too.
Dimensions and pics of coop and run would help here.

Here's some tips that might help....
Integration Basics:
It's all about territory and resources(space/food/water).
Existing birds will almost always attack new ones to defend their resources.
Understanding chicken behaviors is essential to integrating new birds into your flock.

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best if mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no copious blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down and beaten unmercilessly, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide 'out of line of sight'(but not a dead end trap) and/or up and away from any bully birds. Roosts, pallets or boards leaned up against walls or up on concrete blocks, old chairs tables, branches, logs, stumps out in the run can really help. Lots of diversion and places to 'hide' instead of bare wide open run.
Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/

Thank you so much for all of the info! The new run will be much bigger, so I think that when it arrives I will have more feed and water stations as well, so I think I will try to integrate them when I get the bigger run.

 

[aart]

The new run will be 10x20, so 200 sq ft.

Run sounds good.
How about the coop?

wonders about coop too.
Dimensions and pics of coop and run would help here.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Thank you for your response! And what I meant by playpen is that I have the chicks next to the older hens in a separate playpen flush next to the run so the older hens can see them but not get to them. The new run will be 10x20, so 200 sq ft.

That'll be a fantastic upgrade for them. Due to the fact that the current run is so much smaller I would wait until the new one arrives before attempting to let them spend time together again (short supervised visits may be ok, but if you have to step away for a minute make sure to put the chicks back in a safe area).

Added benefit with having a new run is it'll be new to both groups, and possibly help serve as a distraction as the older birds may be more interested in exploring than in the younger birds. Adding clutter would still a good idea to break up the space and to provide hiding spots, so look around your yard for what you can recycle for that purpose.

 

[Victoria_S]

That'll be a fantastic upgrade for them. Due to the fact that the current run is so much smaller I would wait until the new one arrives before attempting to let them spend time together again (short supervised visits may be ok, but if you have to step away for a minute make sure to put the chicks back in a safe area).

Added benefit with having a new run is it'll be new to both groups, and possibly help serve as a distraction as the older birds may be more interested in exploring than in the younger birds. Adding clutter would still a good idea to break up the space and to provide hiding spots, so look around your yard for what you can recycle for that purpose.

That sounds like a great idea! Especially placing items in the bigger run, I never thought of that. Thanks so much for all your help!

 

[Victoria_S]

Run sounds good.
How about the coop?

I'm not sure how big the old coop is, I would say probably about 3 ft by 2.5 ft. But the new coop will be a 4x10.