Integration problems

[nkvmdsrs127]

I have 4 pullets, (11 weeks old ) AND 2 hens, aged 1.5 years.

For the past 4 weeks, I have kept the pullets outside in an enclosed pen, during the day. My older girls free range my yard during the day, but for a few hours each day the hens and pullets are in the same enclosure. They do fine. At night, the pullets go in a dog crate, that goes into a small run attached to the coop. All this has been fine for 4 weeks.

The past 2 nights I have tried to have the 6 girls together in the small coop run-hoping the youngsters will walk up into the coop. However -one of the hens seriously attacks at least of the pullets when they are in the run together. So they go back in the crate for safety.

Is there’s something else I can do to improve/create harmony? They have all had plenty of together time, albeit In a larger area (their “pasture”) without obvious conflict.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[GermanKennhuhn]

I would separate a bit of the coop with chicken wire, so the others can see the chicks but can’t touch them.

 

[Brooks_]

I have 4 pullets, (11 weeks old ) AND 2 hens, aged 1.5 years.

For the past 4 weeks, I have kept the pullets outside in an enclosed pen, during the day. My older girls free range my yard during the day, but for a few hours each day the hens and pullets are in the same enclosure. They do fine. At night, the pullets go in a dog crate, that goes into a small run attached to the coop. All this has been fine for 4 weeks.

The past 2 nights I have tried to have the 6 girls together in the small coop run-hoping the youngsters will walk up into the coop. However -one of the hens seriously attacks at least of the pullets when they are in the run together. So they go back in the crate for safety.

Is there’s something else I can do to improve/create harmony? They have all had plenty of together time, albeit In a larger area (their “pasture”) without obvious conflict.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Could you share pics and/or measurements of the set up?

 

[rosemarythyme]

You've described the coop as "small" - that may be a big issue here, as integration favors space which they have when outside, but not inside at night. Photos of your set up, and measurements as well if possible?

 

[nkvmdsrs127]

You've described the coop as "small" - that may be a big issue here, as integration favors space which they have when outside, but not inside at night. Photos of your set up, and measurements as well if possible?

The coop itself is 5.5 ft x 3.5 ft-with 6 nesting boxes.

The run attached to the coop is 3ft x 12ft.

They are ONLY confined to the coop & run at bedtime/night, as of now.

Thank you!

 

[aart]

The coop itself is 5.5 ft x 3.5 ft-with 6 nesting boxes.

Does that dimension include the nests?
Coop is might tiny for 6 birds, let alone integration.

 

[Mrs. K]

I know the pre fab coop says it will hold 6 birds. It won't. Your birds are telling you that there is not enough room in there for more birds. Some birds can tolerate over crowding, and some birds cannot.

And 'free ranging' will not compensate for a coop that is too small. If you have winter, the birds will be cooped up more than 14 hours a day for me in SD. Very ugly behaviors can develop.

The easiest thing to do is reduce your flock, or add another coop. I would not put more than 3-4 birds in that set up.

Mrs K

 

[3KillerBs]

Welcome to BYC. Where, in general, are you? Climate matters, especially when it comes to housing.

The most likely problem here is that the coop is too small for all of them:

For each adult, standard-sized hen you need:

• 4 square feet in the coop (.37 square meters)
• 10 square feet in the run (.93 square meters),
• 1 linear foot of roost (.3 meters),
• 1/4 of a nest box,
• And 1 square foot (.09 square meters) of permanent, 24/7/365 ventilation, preferably located over the birds' heads when they're sitting on the roost.

6 hens

• 24 square feet in the coop. 4'x6' is the only really practical build for this given the common dimensions of lumber. If you can't walk into it, put the access door in the middle of the long side to make sure you can reach all areas of the coop because a stubborn chicken WILL press itself into/lay an egg in the back corner where you can't reach.
• 6 feet of roost
• 60 square feet in the run. 6'x10' or 8'x8'.
• 6 square feet of ventilation.
• 2 nest boxes, to give the hens a choice

Nest boxes and space occupied by feeders, etc, don't count in the measurements. Only unobstructed floor space counts.

Integrating new flock members needs extra space above and beyond the minimums and part-time free ranging doesn't make up for the crowding.

I suggest converting your coop-and-run combo into all coop. This thread has good suggestions for the project: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-renovated-prefab-coop.1440258/

 

[Ridgerunner]

I see two different issues here. One is integration. Yours are fine during the day when they have plenty of room. It's when they are locked up together in a tight space that you have a problem. That's not unusual. You probably don't see them that close together during the day, they younger probably avoid the older. That's what mine do. But at night when they are getting ready for bed they don't have enough room to avoid. Older hens often don't like it when the juveniles invade their personal space and can be cranky about it. In that tight space the juveniles can't avoid them. Once they mature enough for the other hens to accept them things should be OK. With mine that's usually about the time they start to lay. To me the solution is to either give them enough room to avoid the hens which will be really challenging in your coop section or create a separate place for them to sleep until they mature. That may be at the far end of your 3x12 run. It needs to be predator proof and give them the protection they need from weather. I don't know where you are or what weather you may be facing the next few months but it may not need to be much as it can be temporary.

The other issue is room once the juveniles mature enough to join the older girls. Weather again plays a part in this. Your requirements of how much room you need and what it looks like are going to be different if you have snow and weather that confines them to the coop section only for stretches or if they can be out all day every day like much of the southern half of the US. I'm not sure where you are, you could be on a totally different continent. There are general guidelines we often quote that might get you in the ballpark, but you don't have to adhere to them so rigidly that if you burp you get a hernia. For some people they are overkill, more than they need. For others they are still not enough. If all they use it for is to sleep and lay eggs they don't need that much. If you are integrating, have a broody hen raise chicks with the flock, or they are trapped in there for extended periods of time (like a snowstorm) it may not be enough. Chickens don't see space as coop space or run space. That's a human concept. Chickens see space as space, wherever it is. I see my coop and run together as a space system, how I manage them determines how much room is available to them when they need it.

Occasionally you can find a decent prefab coop but those are rare. Many aren't really designed for chickens. They have way more nest space than the number of chickens they hold really need. The roosts often are not sufficient or functional. Ventilation is often not very good. They often quote that they can hold twice as many chickens as they really should. From what I can see yours might fall into many of those categories.

So what can you do in the long term, for when they have merged into one flock? That depends a lot on your climate. Do you consider that run section predator safe? If you are in a mild climate you may be able to get by with what you have. Leave the pop door open at night so they have the use of that entire coop/run when they are awake. Let them out to free range during the day. My main concerns with that are what do the roosts look like, you may need to make modifications, and how much they poop at night. In that small space you may be managing a lot of poop.

If you can't do that it gets harder. You want to be able to access every part of your coop. Covering a 3' x 12' run to make it better protected from weather sounds good but how do you get access? You can do it but it's not as simple as attaching some plywood unless you set it up as a walk-in. It's only 3' wide. You can't maneuver in there if you put nests, roosts, feeders or waterers in your way. I think you can manage it but it may not be very convenient for you to work in there.

I'm sure I'm overthinking the long term issues. Right now I'd concentrate on the integration and fix that.

 

[nkvmdsrs127]

Does that dimension include the nests?
Coop is might tiny for 6 birds, let alone

Welcome to BYC. Where, in general, are you? Climate matters, especially when it comes to housing.

The most likely problem here is that the coop is too small for all of them:

For each adult, standard-sized hen you need:

• 4 square feet in the coop (.37 square meters)
• 10 square feet in the run (.93 square meters),
• 1 linear foot of roost (.3 meters),
• 1/4 of a nest box,
• And 1 square foot (.09 square meters) of permanent, 24/7/365 ventilation, preferably located over the birds' heads when they're sitting on the roost.

6 hens

• 24 square feet in the coop. 4'x6' is the only really practical build for this given the common dimensions of lumber. If you can't walk into it, put the access door in the middle of the long side to make sure you can reach all areas of the coop because a stubborn chicken WILL press itself into/lay an egg in the back corner where you can't reach.
• 6 feet of roost
• 60 square feet in the run. 6'x10' or 8'x8'.
• 6 square feet of ventilation.
• 2 nest boxes, to give the hens a choice

Nest boxes and space occupied by feeders, etc, don't count in the measurements. Only unobstructed floor space counts.

Integrating new flock members needs extra space above and beyond the minimums and part-time free ranging doesn't make up for the crowding.

I suggest converting your coop-and-run combo into all coop. This thread has good suggestions for the project: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/my-renovated-prefab-coop.1440258/

this is an interesting idea -thank you
I live in Maryland.
None of the chickens have been in the coop together yet-just the run.
I had a very happy flock of of 5 chickens living in this very same setup from June 2021-Dec 2021. They are only closed up in to coop/run from dusk to early morning. I will consider options discussed here & appreciate the input