Integration questions

[lutherpug]

Thanks for all of the suggestions-

We will reintroduce the pecked Orpington this upcoming Thursday night. She seems fully healed, her wound is at least not visible as it has been over a week and she had a nice bath over the weekend to remove any residual dried blood. She could probably go back in tonight but I'm out of town until Thursday afternoon so I'm going to wait until I can keep a closer eye on things.

My RIR is a hatchery bird. She is completely miserable in my basement and is desperate to get out of her playpen. I hope that when I reintroduce her over the weekend she will behave. If not I will re-home her. She is a funny hen and a good layer but I don't have room for a bully. Hopefully she straightens up.

My other two young pullets in the coop seem to be doing okay but they give the hens a very wide berth. They're still not going into the coop at night until I place them in there and they avoid the big girls at all costs. We have 3 feeders and 2 waterers set up and one of the feeders is elevated on a makeshift table in the run so they can get away from the hens. I'm optimistic that as they get bigger and closer to POL everything will sort itself out. We will have a fenced in yard (finally!!) in about a month so at least we will be able to let them out to run around soon.

Again, thanks for all of the advice!

 

[Spartan22]

I also integrate totally (no barriers) @14-16 wks after they've live together for over a month w/ see but no touch. Someone at BYC told me to wait until they're almost all the same size so they can defend themselves. I'd been integrating for the last 4 springs and it's been easy fizzy. I got 5 hatchery RIR with my flock so far no problem for 2 yrs now my old bullies are the 3 Wyandottes.

 

[lutherpug]

I also integrate totally (no barriers) @14-16 wks after they've live together for over a month w/ see but no touch. Someone at BYC told me to wait until they're almost all the same size so they can defend themselves. I'd been integrating for the last 4 springs and it's been easy fizzy. I got 5 hatchery RIR with my flock so far no problem for 2 yrs now my old bullies are the 3 Wyandottes.

I've read that integrating either at 2-3 weeks or 14-16 weeks is ideal. I would have much preferred integrating when they were 2-3 weeks but we had a chick with severe scissor beak, who has since died, that complicated things a bit. As a side note, I would never buy winter chicks again-at least not in our current setup-as that delayed us as well. We have no way to separate them in the coop and run until they're 14-16 weeks old. We did "see but no touch" for a few weeks but their enclosure is too small at this point.

I would do it differently the next time....but I think we will survive this

 

[aart]

Quote: Yeppers!

You will survive, you've learned a lot and done well....the second year is usually much easier.

 

[lutherpug]

Yeppers!

You will survive, you've learned a lot and done well....the second year is usually much easier.

Thanks, that means a lot coming from you!

The Orpington is back in the coop and has only been terrorized a little, mostly by the Australorp if you can believe that. I'll probably put the RIR in tonight after dark and see how the rest of the weekend goes. Worst case scenario the RIR finds a new home. Wouldn't be too difficult as she is less than a year old and laying almost daily. Hopefully it isn't necessary to do so.

 

[lutherpug]

Everyone is back in the coop and I have a follow up question.

I'm a little concerned my pullets are going to be completely mental by the time they're full grown. They spend 90% of their time running from the hens in terror. The hens, for their part, ignore them about 50% of the time if they're at an acceptable distance but they do seem to chase them solely for the purpose of pecking them quite often as well. Will this ever sort itself out? I have a hard time imagining that things are just suddenly going to resolve but I hope I'm wrong. FWIW, they'll be 12 weeks old tomorrow.

I've got 60 sq ft of run space for 3 hens and 3 pullets. There are 2 waterers and 4 feeders currently and they're spread out over different elevations, in the coop AND run, etc. I don't know what else I can do besides keep an eye on things and hope nobody gets bloodied again.

Should it be this violent and will my poor pullets come out of this well adjusted and normal?

 

[IdyllwildAcres]

Everyone is back in the coop and I have a follow up question.

I'm a little concerned my pullets are going to be completely mental by the time they're full grown. They spend 90% of their time running from the hens in terror. The hens, for their part, ignore them about 50% of the time if they're at an acceptable distance but they do seem to chase them solely for the purpose of pecking them quite often as well. Will this ever sort itself out? I have a hard time imagining that things are just suddenly going to resolve but I hope I'm wrong. FWIW, they'll be 12 weeks old tomorrow.

I've got 60 sq ft of run space for 3 hens and 3 pullets. There are 2 waterers and 4 feeders currently and they're spread out over different elevations, in the coop AND run, etc. I don't know what else I can do besides keep an eye on things and hope nobody gets bloodied again.

Should it be this violent and will my poor pullets come out of this well adjusted and normal?

well adjusted is a human thing, and most of us turned out ok. I think they will be fine, but I don't have any actual experience my first chicks coming in April.

Good luck

Gary

 

[Ridgerunner]

What you are seeing is pretty normal in chicken society but what is not normal is that your space is limited. That’s why they are getting beat up. I know you followed the numbers you see on here all the time but those often don’t work for integration, especially with the age differences you have. Once those pullets mature, usually when they start laying, that should be enough room, but right now you have challenges. It doesn’t help that apparently you have an aggressive individual(s). Some hens are real brutes and go out of their way to beat up on weaker chickens. Some hens are fine with younger chickens. But most hens will peck immature chickens when the chicks invade their private space. If you have enough room for the younger immature chickens to run away and get away or avoid the older ones to start with, integration often goes very well. The numbers you read for space on here don’t take this into account, they are more for a flock of mature hens. It’s not your fault that you did what you read on this forum.

You read all kinds of things on the internet and on this forum. We are all unique in many things so what works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for someone else. Some people can integrate chicks at a very young age. Their set-up and management techniques allow that. Some can’t, they need to wait. We all need to find our own way.

As a side note, I have never seen a 16 week old pullet stand up to any mature hen, regardless of size difference. Maturity is what counts, not size. That’s another magic number I just don’t have any faith in.

As far as mental and emotional damage, those pullets are and will remain terrified of those older hens until they mature enough to force their way into the pecking order, usually around when they start to lay. That is totally absolutely normal. That’s why you usually see younger chickens form their own sub-flock and avoid the adults as much as possible. Occasionally I have a brood of chicks that can mix and mingle with adults without big problems, but that is fairly unusual. Usually they keep their distance. But once they mature and force their way into the pecking order, they will fit into chicken society just fine. You do not need to show them episodes of Dr. Phil or bring out the big guns and show reruns of Oprah to help them with their self-esteem. Once they mature they will fit in fine.

Good luck in getting through this. You will survive and next time you will have a different set-up.

 

[aart]

Everyone is back in the coop and I have a follow up question.

I'm a little concerned my pullets are going to be completely mental by the time they're full grown. They spend 90% of their time running from the hens in terror. The hens, for their part, ignore them about 50% of the time if they're at an acceptable distance but they do seem to chase them solely for the purpose of pecking them quite often as well. Will this ever sort itself out? I have a hard time imagining that things are just suddenly going to resolve but I hope I'm wrong. FWIW, they'll be 12 weeks old tomorrow.

I've got 60 sq ft of run space for 3 hens and 3 pullets. There are 2 waterers and 4 feeders currently and they're spread out over different elevations, in the coop AND run, etc. I don't know what else I can do besides keep an eye on things and hope nobody gets bloodied again.

Should it be this violent and will my poor pullets come out of this well adjusted and normal?

That space is minimal for the well adjusted(haha) ...it's pret-ty tight for integration...hope for the best.
Too bad it's probably too cold(ground frozen?) for pounding in a few Tposts and stringing up some fencing to add to their space.

 

[lutherpug]

What you are seeing is pretty normal in chicken society but what is not normal is that your space is limited. That’s why they are getting beat up. I know you followed the numbers you see on here all the time but those often don’t work for integration, especially with the age differences you have. Once those pullets mature, usually when they start laying, that should be enough room, but right now you have challenges. It doesn’t help that apparently you have an aggressive individual(s). Some hens are real brutes and go out of their way to beat up on weaker chickens. Some hens are fine with younger chickens. But most hens will peck immature chickens when the chicks invade their private space. If you have enough room for the younger immature chickens to run away and get away or avoid the older ones to start with, integration often goes very well. The numbers you read for space on here don’t take this into account, they are more for a flock of mature hens. It’s not your fault that you did what you read on this forum.

You read all kinds of things on the internet and on this forum. We are all unique in many things so what works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for someone else. Some people can integrate chicks at a very young age. Their set-up and management techniques allow that. Some can’t, they need to wait. We all need to find our own way.

As a side note, I have never seen a 16 week old pullet stand up to any mature hen, regardless of size difference. Maturity is what counts, not size. That’s another magic number I just don’t have any faith in.

As far as mental and emotional damage, those pullets are and will remain terrified of those older hens until they mature enough to force their way into the pecking order, usually around when they start to lay. That is totally absolutely normal. That’s why you usually see younger chickens form their own sub-flock and avoid the adults as much as possible. Occasionally I have a brood of chicks that can mix and mingle with adults without big problems, but that is fairly unusual. Usually they keep their distance. But once they mature and force their way into the pecking order, they will fit into chicken society just fine. You do not need to show them episodes of Dr. Phil or bring out the big guns and show reruns of Oprah to help them with their self-esteem. Once they mature they will fit in fine.

Good luck in getting through this. You will survive and next time you will have a different set-up.

Thank you. I wondered about the space as well. My Dominique mostly leaves them alone, it is the RIR and Australorp that are being nasty. The Australorp was at the bottom of the pecking order and I think she is relishing the opportunity to have someone to pick on and the RIR is....well, a RIR. It's good to hear that they're not necessarily be doomed to a life of skittishness. I would tack up a temporary fence in a heartbeat but my neighbors have a big dog that constantly gets out (drives me NUTS) and I'm sure it could run through a temporary fence in an instant. Too risky. Everything will be a little easier here in a few weeks when our privacy fence is up but it isn't an option at the moment.

Interestingly, right after I had updated this post I went down there and the pullets were laying in a pile at the back of the run which is as calm as I've seen them in weeks. I'll take it