Intentionally scrambling eggs and geriatric incubation

[Susan Skylark]

My dry dry eggs should hatch Saturday and I still have ten days to wait on my 21 day storage eggs before they can go in the incubator. I think in the interim I’ll try incubating some pseudo shipped eggs. How much abuse can an egg take and still develop? I’ve packaged up a dozen in foam and a shipping box and will abuse the poor things daily, removing 4 eggs each day so I’ll have eggs with no trauma and eggs with 1-3 days of trauma. It was hard tipping the box down the basement stairs but also a little fun once I got over the initial trauma. I won’t take them to hatch but curious about development and early embryonic death, may take a few detached air cells to hatch (if any) just to see effect on hatch rate. Right now the box is ‘going for a ride’ on top of the washing machine as I do laundry as I’m not driving anywhere significant for a few days and is the closest I can get to a road trip! I’ll keep you posted.

 

[Chicken_tiger_catt]

My dry dry eggs should hatch Saturday and I still have ten days to wait on my 21 day storage eggs before they can go in the incubator. I think in the interim I’ll try incubating some pseudo shipped eggs. How much abuse can an egg take and still develop? I’ve packaged up a dozen in foam and a shipping box and will abuse the poor things daily, removing 4 eggs each day so I’ll have eggs with no trauma and eggs with 1-3 days of trauma. It was hard tipping the box down the basement stairs but also a little fun once I got over the initial trauma. I won’t take them to hatch but curious about development and early embryonic death, may take a few detached air cells to hatch (if any) just to see effect on hatch rate. Right now the box is ‘going for a ride’ on top of the washing machine as I do laundry as I’m not driving anywhere significant for a few days and is the closest I can get to a road trip! I’ll keep you posted.

morally questionable.............. I'm interested.

 

[Susan Skylark]

opening a day 10 quail egg may be offensive to our cultural obsession with cuteness but is not morally questionable save in an ethos that considers all life sacred, but as I am not Buddhist or vegan, and really like cheeseburgers, I can get away with a clean conscience. If we were talking embryonic humans on the other hand, I would hope there would be major qualms about something like this.

 

[Susan Skylark]

Already learning something! Candled eggs after today’s scramble: one egg has a slight crack but candled the other egg from the same bird in the no trauma control and it too has a funny shell. Note to self, don’t ship eggs from that bird: oblong lumpish large eggs with thinner shell, not very durable. All other eggs/air cells candling normal. Took out 4 and will repeat stairs/tossing box tomorrow. Also storing box overnight at weird angle.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

My reaction is not toward the things you are doing to the eggs, but that you thought of doing them, lol! Now I'm fascinated and following!

 

[Susan Skylark]

It is rather a naughty feeling rolling a box of eggs down the stairs at that!

 

[Susan Skylark]

I put my abused eggs in the incubator this afternoon, I will not be taking them to hatch, only day 10 to see effect of trauma on development and early embryonic death. I will also be running a concurrent trial with eggs that have been stored for 2-3 weeks, adding 4 eggs every couple days from my batch that has been sitting at 68F for two weeks. I know eggs are supposed to significantly lose fertility after 10 days and these have been out 2 weeks, but how about after that, is there a continuing downward trend or no development at all? So in summation we’ll have eggs of varying age (no trauma) between 2-3 weeks of age, 4 control eggs (no trauma or age), and 3 groups of eggs with 1-3 days of trauma. None will go to hatch but probably day 10. I’ll start candling day 3 and open anything dead or questionable starting day 4.

 

[Susan Skylark]

Day 4: 4/4 development on the 2 week old eggs, one looked infertile and found a blood ring, developed but died day 2. Trauma eggs 15/15 for development, no quitters yet. Have another batch of old eggs at day 2 and another at day 0, last batch will go in Saturday when they hit 3 weeks of age, 5-6 eggs per group. You always hear old eggs don’t develop but I’m guessing that the problem is hatch rate not development rate. They develop but have a much higher embryonic death rate and thus don’t hatch but nobody is out there candling their eggs daily, they just count what hatches and don’t differentiate. It is a fairly common phenomenon in say frozen semen in certain mammal species or human ivf. Older gametes are more prone to genetic defects and more prone to early developmental issues and embryonic death. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Slothinc]

Day 4: 4/4 development on the 2 week old eggs, one looked infertile and found a blood ring, developed but died day 2. Trauma eggs 15/15 for development, no quitters yet. Have another batch of old eggs at day 2 and another at day 0, last batch will go in Saturday when they hit 3 weeks of age, 5-6 eggs per group. You always hear old eggs don’t develop but I’m guessing that the problem is hatch rate not development rate. They develop but have a much higher embryonic death rate and thus don’t hatch but nobody is out there candling their eggs daily, they just count what hatches and don’t differentiate. It is a fairly common phenomenon in say frozen semen in certain mammal species or human ivf. Older gametes are more prone to genetic defects and more prone to early developmental issues and embryonic death. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Any additional updates on your experiment? I would love to know the results!!! I have been the recipient of many shipped eggs that stop developing early, and those that do develop often do not hatch out.

 

[Kimmyh51]

I put my abused eggs in the incubator this afternoon, I will not be taking them to hatch, only day 10 to see effect of trauma on development and early embryonic death. I will also be running a concurrent trial with eggs that have been stored for 2-3 weeks, adding 4 eggs every couple days from my batch that has been sitting at 68F for two weeks. I know eggs are supposed to significantly lose fertility after 10 days and these have been out 2 weeks, but how about after that, is there a continuing downward trend or no development at all? So in summation we’ll have eggs of varying age (no trauma) between 2-3 weeks of age, 4 control eggs (no trauma or age), and 3 groups of eggs with 1-3 days of trauma. None will go to hatch but probably day 10. I’ll start candling day 3 and open anything dead or questionable starting day 4.

Youd only need to take them to day 4 or so to see if they still start to grow. Unless you are someone with veterinary /veterinary science study and quals, Im not sure what benefit, knowledge wise, you would gain from incubating further than to tell if the egg is still able to start growing?
Ie if you take them to 10 days and of the ones that were growing and alive at, say 4 days, only 50% were still alive at 10 days, what evidence would you have to ensure you could attribute the embryonic death of the 50% that died, to the treatment the eggs had pre incubation? Vs all of the other reasons eggs dont hatch and chicks die in the egg? Including incubation issues?
If you take them beyond the time it takes to know if the embryo will grow at all, regardless of what results you get, what will you actually be able to prove or know for sure you have learnt about survival and early embryonic death? That for certain can only be attributed to the "abuse"of the eggs?

I get you are trying to learn something, maybe out of frustration from buying eggs to be shipped which were probably munted by handling during shipping, but I dont see how you can for certain, ever prove this even to yourself for sure, let alone to anyone else?

Maybe instead just don't buy shipped fertile eggs? Try to find some local?
Or research couriers who will actually give a f--k and handle the eggs properly?
Or otherwise if thats not an option where you are, maybe purchase live, older chicks/juvenile's and have them transported by a reputable pet transporter, one who will be accountable if live birds leave the origin and arrive dead.
So if you buy x number of birds you receive the same number of live healthy birds?

It might cost more at the onset, but is more humane than paying to buy eggs that grow embryos that die, or shipping day old hatchlings and hoping for the best in terms of warmth and their ability to retain their essential biological markers within normal ranges while contained in a small box with a little tray of gel stuff that for all you know has dried out or been tipped upside down and is no longer useful to the babies taped up in the box for however many days...