interested in Red jungle fowl

[Don 27]

The "Red Jungle Fowl" line Cackle Hatchery has was infused with some brown leghorn prior to 25 years ago (per phone conversation). Based on individual bird size of Cackle's line and assuming no selection for size, the brown leghorn represents less than half what makes up the line. The feathering of tail being so showy indicates the addition coming from the domestic.

I need to find a pure Red Jungle Fowl myself, just one to make some non-game show birds.

That's weird they would cross them with brown leghorn. Do you think this is going to reduce there survival rate. Cackle s game birds are out of stock to. So you're saying if I cross game birds with my game bantams the rooster s will be less aggressive? My game bantams are vary tolerant of multiple rooster s so that would make sense.

 

[centrarchid]

Yes all crosses I have made to date are not dead game. Sameness appears to involve several recessive alleles as it takes more than one backcross into games to restore gameness.

 

[Don 27]

What is the difference between what you’re looking for and just having a coop that you leave open so the birds can do their thing all day long then have a place to sleep at night out of the weather?
I have birds the were born in the woods on the ground yet as they got older chose to sleep in a coop or pen at night.
I don’t care what anyone says either if you aren’t killing a ton of raccoons, possums, foxes etc. you’ll lose every single bird. I’m not talking 5-6 raccoons I’m talking like 30-40 a year, same goes for possums. Foxes much less but it doesn’t take more than one to decimate your flock.
Many people you might get advice from won’t tell you just how many birds they actually lose.

Well the difference is the birds I plan on keeping are going to be more self reliant than most chickens. And I would like to have a chicken that's more wild and less domesticated than most chickens. I would like them to raise there young with the same or close to the same way they did before we domesticated them. I'm not a big fan of what chickens have become. Slow birds that are twice the size and lay 30 time's more eggs.[/QUOTE]

 

[ThracianHorse]

Well the difference is the birds I plan on keeping are going to be more self reliant than most chickens. And I would like to have a chicken that's more wild and less domesticated than most chickens. I would like them to raise there young with the same or close to the same way they did before we domesticated them. I'm not a big fan of what chickens have become. Slow birds that are twice the size and lay 30 time's more eggs.

[/QUOTE]

You not liking what chickens have been made into through domestication is not going to change what they are, nor are you going to find real wild birds with chickens. They are livestock, and that implies care of some sort. People have explained here why free-range birds are possible, but the rosy-tinted wild experience where you are tolerated among them is a myth. Most chickens have hundreds to thousands of years between them and the wild at this point, and unless you wanna pay the premium for the real junglefowl, you aren't going to get wild. The best you'll get is a simulacrum of the wild, and in a way that's unkind to your birds for a variety of reasons. The wild isn't kind to wild animals, and it isn't kind at all to livestock. I suggest you take a trip to Florida or Hawaii to see exactly what feral chickens do because it isn't what you think.

I would also point out that being predated on is part of the wild experience you are looking for, yet you seem to have no issues with the idea of annihilating the wild animal predators (which belong there) to support your chicken wilderness simulacrum. In the wild, chickens are prey animals in addition to being smaller-end predators themselves. That's a bit of a double standard. Are your chickens wild? Or are they Livestock? Letting them be taken by predators is the former, killing predators in scores is the latter.

 

[Don 27]

I'm going to say that it's just you're feelings telling you that wild is not nice to animals as you can't prove it. Animals came from the wild and as far as I know that's there habitat. Now I'm not going to put animals through something that would not normally happen to them that's why I'm going to give them winter protection. Also livestock is no different than any other animal just because we decided we should domesticate them. If wild is not a good home for animals than why not we take everything and lock them up in cages and see how are environment plays out. Animals can adapt to new environments and will. Just look at how much more modern chickens have adapted to the cold than red jungle fowl. If you get pure stock you may have to heat and humidifiy there building during the winter. Also if the week birds are not thinned out you will end up with a bunch of birds that can't handle a predator attack to save there lives.

 

[ThracianHorse]

I'm going to say that it's just you're feelings telling you that wild is not nice to animals as you can't prove it. Animals came from the wild and as far as I know that's there habitat. Now I'm not going to put animals thru something that would not normally happen to them that's why I'm going to give them winter protection. Also livestock is no different than any other animal just because we decided we should domesticate them. If wild is not a good home for animals than why not we take everything and lock them up in cages and see how are environment plays out. Animals can adapt to new environments and will. Just look at how much more modern chickens have adapted to the cold than red jungle fowl. If you get pure stock you may have to heat and humidifiy there building during the winter. Also if the week birds are not thinned out you will end up with a bunch a bunch of birds that can t handel a predator attack to save there lives.

Ten years of working with wild animals says you're wrong.

Ever seen a black bear rip apart a fawn? It happens regularly, and there is nothing more a black bear loves than the terrified squealing of a fawn. Ever seen an animal struggling to survive with a broken limb? Watch them slowly succumb to gangrene or starvation, whichever comes first? Ever seen a raccoon with rabies? Or a fish so terribly scarred from sea-lamprey bites it can barely swim? I've seen deer eat baby birds. I've seen hawks die of myiasis from injuries inflicted by another hawk. Ground squirrels make no bones about snacking on a comrade who's been squashed by a truck. Oh. Right. All of that is supposed to be "nice" - it's in nature, so it is natural!

None of that is nice. None of that is pleasant. These are but a mere sliver of all the nasty things we spare our domesticated animals from. We give them mercy when they are dying, and we treat them when they are sick or injured. Wild animals don't have an Uber to go to a damn vet. I'm sorry. What was that about the wild not being nice? The wild literally does not give a damn because it's survival of the fittest. If you plan on subjecting a domesticated animal to that, you are being cruel because they have no defense from the wild other than to get extremely lucky, which - arguably - is how some species go feral. Do you have the time and money to allow for that learning curve and the death toll it implies? You are not in the jungles of borneo. You're in Ohio. You know what chicken breeds are adapted to cold? Domesticated chickens.

Run the experiment, by all means. See what happens. Some of us on this thread have been trying to tell you, but you want to listen more to what you think will happen, and not what will happen.

 

[Don 27]

Maybe this is cruel to people. But we don't know what those animals are thinking. If you don't want to see suffering than why not we just kill all animals humanely and be done with this whole thing. Humans can treat animals poorly too, ever see chicken factories. So bears are evil than why do they even exist. Once again I'm not going to throw chickens out in the woods and hope for the best. I know as well as you do they have not been against anything life threatening in a long time. You could complain all day how you don't like how nature has played out . What about the predators you want them to become vegan. And let the pray multiple as much as they want. What's going to limit breeding? You can't micro manage nature . Also chickens are still living in the wild as we speak. So I'm not looking for a breed that has been domesticated for a thousand some years.

 

[Don 27]

Your aggressive tone and the swearing is uncalled for. Stop harassing me one more rude comment like that and I'm going to report you!

 

[roosterhavoc]

Your aggressive tone and the swearing is uncalled for. Stop harassing me one more rude comment like that and I'm going to report you!

Cam down. You’re actually being slightly hardheaded about the whole thing. The idea of wild for the umpteenth time is ridiculous. I promise you you’ll lose every last bird. What you are saying is free range not wild. If you feed them or do anything for them at all they’re not even close to wild.
Crossing gamefowl with layers isn’t gonna get you there either. If I were you I would research breeds that do a little better loose. Blue andulusians, Anconas etc.. It would take quite a few lifetimes to even scratch the surface of making them wild.

 

[ThracianHorse]

Your aggressive tone and the swearing is uncalled for. Stop harassing me one more rude comment like that and I'm going to report you!

As far as I know I have been fairly calm, and level-headed about this entire thread, and presented the facts as intellectually and dispassionately as allowed. I have no dog in this fight, and I have attempted to spare you financial and emotional harm.The only swear word I used was 'damn'. Far as I know, that was well within the PG-13 nature of this board. Go ahead. Report me, if you dare.

Good luck with your experiment. I don't think it will pan out, but good luck all the same.