Interesting conversation with King freedom feed nutitionist this am

[NOSA]

I contacted this gentleman because the lady at my local feed store (the feed trough) in Salinas CA broke down her interpretation of organic vs non gmo (conventional) chick starter feed. She said just because it's organic doesn't nessisarily mean it's non gmo, so she sells me on the non gmo chicken feed that is peanut based protein now I finally got a call back from the nutrition expert from L.A.hearne the father company of king feeds and he left me with a clearer prospective of the feed but slightly confused as to something he said. I asked him if the organic feed is also non gmo since I'm lead to believe that typically anything certified organic also has to be non gmo with our food why not livestock. He explained that even though a field may be planted and raised organic/non gmo you can't control a possible pollination of a GMO plant neighboring by. But wouldn't that go the same with "non gmo" products as well. Now if I'm raising backyard chickens it's mainly because I want the best and most natural product for consumption so why would these 2 folks push non gmo over organic and tell me the pollination theory? How do you guys feel about it? With my lack of expertise I'm almost done with my first 50 lbs bag of chick grower stuff that wasn't organic but non gmo since I got sold on it without reaserch but the organic is usda certified and I feel Lind of dooped and somewhat irritated. My whole purpose was to avoid conventional chemicals as well.

 

[mkm2]

They informed you incorrectly. If it's organic, it's non-gmo, too. If it's non-gmo, but not organic, chemicals can, and probably are being used. I use Scratch and Peck feeds which is organic, corn and soy free, and also certified non-gmo. I also live close to a mill that mixes their own non-gmo feed, and buy it occasionally, but it's mainly soy and corn and I find my birds do better and prefer to eat the Scratch and Peck. I've also mixed my own with organic grains and then ferment it and they LOVE that, but it's more time consuming!

 

[NOSA]

Their organic line is made with soy/corn that it's organic, is organic soy/corn not a good thing to feed your chickens?

 

[mkm2]

I personally don't feed corn or soy because I don't see any nutritional value. Corn is just a filler and the only reason it's fed to any type of animal is to make them fat. I know often people feed it more in the winter as they think it helps them stay warmer. Soy is really not good for people or animals, unless fermented. It's high in protein though, which is why it's used in the feed. Corn and Soy are two of the most subsidized crops, which is why you find them in most animal feeds...they are cheap. I prefer an animal based protein for my chickens, which is why I use the Scratch and Peck. They seem to prefer it also. When I have used the non-gmo, corn/soy feed there is always waste, but I don't have that issue with the other feed.

 

[momto6Ls]

mkm2,

We just harvested our first two meat chickens yesterday and they were puny! 5 month old roosters, sigh...we have about 23 more. They free range all day, so I thought they would be getting enough protein from bugs etc.

I am feeding no corn and no soy also. I was using scratch and peck for chick feed, but I couldn't continue to pay that price. I have been mixing my own - not all organic, but local, and fermenting as well (about half and half) What animal based protein do you use in your feed when you mix your own?

I am thinking about sprouting and adding that to the fermented grains...sprouts are supposed to boost the protein content dramatically. Any thoughts?

THANKS,

momto6Ls

 

[GreenDragon]

They informed you incorrectly. If it's organic, it's non-gmo, too. If it's non-gmo, but not organic, chemicals can, and probably are being used. I use Scratch and Peck feeds which is organic, corn and soy free, and also certified non-gmo. I also live close to a mill that mixes their own non-gmo feed, and buy it occasionally, but it's mainly soy and corn and I find my birds do better and prefer to eat the Scratch and Peck. I've also mixed my own with organic grains and then ferment it and they LOVE that, but it's more time consuming!

what NOSA said about cross pollination is true it can happen and in turn change the DNA of the plants making them a cross from a non- GMO to a mixed breed. what can also happen and does happen is one farmer is planting GMO crop in his field and the field across the fence is a NON-GMO farmer. some times seeds will be tossed over the fence into the other field. now you have non-gmos in the gmo field and gmo's in the non-gmo field not a big deal at first. but farmers who plant non-gmo's use seed from the year before, so now they are planting some gmo's. but they still free gmo seeds from the field next to it, so they end up with more gmo seeds next year.

to be honest labels can not give you a 100% on gmo unless they follow strict gmo free methods. that also means the trucks used and all equipment be free from gmo use. if you really thought about it, it would make your head spin. most farms i know of rent or lease some equipment.

IMHO

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I contacted this gentleman because the lady at my local feed store (the feed trough) in Salinas CA broke down her interpretation of organic vs non gmo (conventional) chick starter feed. She said just because it's organic doesn't nessisarily mean it's non gmo, so she sells me on the non gmo chicken feed that is peanut based protein now I finally got a call back from the nutrition expert from L.A.hearne the father company of king feeds and he left me with a clearer prospective of the feed but slightly confused as to something he said. I asked him if the organic feed is also non gmo since I'm lead to believe that typically anything certified organic also has to be non gmo with our food why not livestock. He explained that even though a field may be planted and raised organic/non gmo you can't control a possible pollination of a GMO plant neighboring by. But wouldn't that go the same with "non gmo" products as well. Now if I'm raising backyard chickens it's mainly because I want the best and most natural product for consumption so why would these 2 folks push non gmo over organic and tell me the pollination theory? How do you guys feel about it? With my lack of expertise I'm almost done with my first 50 lbs bag of chick grower stuff that wasn't organic but non gmo since I got sold on it without reaserch but the organic is usda certified and I feel Lind of dooped and somewhat irritated. My whole purpose was to avoid conventional chemicals....

The dirty little secret is that Organic Crops are treated with some of the oldest and most toxic chemicals known to farming. Things like Neem Oil, Ronote etc. Most non Organic or Genetically Modified crops are never sprayed with the same class of deadly chemicals.

I know that there'll be some who will deny that Organic Crops are sprayed with pesticides of any kind, but the dirty little secret is that they are.

If any one thinks that there are quaint little farmers out there saving their Great-Great-Great-Granddaddies' corn seeds in a Mason Jar, let me assure you that up to 99% of all corn produced in the United States is produced from hybrid corn seeds.
This non-GMO Organic corn is almost exclusively produced from hybrid seeds bought from big evil seed companies like Pioneer or their mother corporation, Monsanto and this has been true for almost 100 years. So almost every crop is planted from hybrid seeds manipulated anew each year so that the mature plants will express the traits desired by the farmer and there is no room or way that there could be cross pollination going on because new seeds must be purchased each and every year to keep the farmers' yields high enough to keep his wife in second hand dresses.
Anyone who even suggests something different is either deluded or else they are pulling your leg. Watch your wallet around these salesmen. -------- Caveat emptor!!!!

 

[centrarchid]

I contacted this gentleman because the lady at my local feed store (the feed trough) in Salinas CA broke down her interpretation of organic vs non gmo (conventional) chick starter feed. She said just because it's organic doesn't nessisarily mean it's non gmo, so she sells me on the non gmo chicken feed that is peanut based protein now I finally got a call back from the nutrition expert from L.A.hearne the father company of king feeds and he left me with a clearer prospective of the feed but slightly confused as to something he said. I asked him if the organic feed is also non gmo since I'm lead to believe that typically anything certified organic also has to be non gmo with our food why not livestock. He explained that even though a field may be planted and raised organic/non gmo you can't control a possible pollination of a GMO plant neighboring by. But wouldn't that go the same with "non gmo" products as well. Now if I'm raising backyard chickens it's mainly because I want the best and most natural product for consumption so why would these 2 folks push non gmo over organic and tell me the pollination theory? How do you guys feel about it? With my lack of expertise I'm almost done with my first 50 lbs bag of chick grower stuff that wasn't organic but non gmo since I got sold on it without reaserch but the organic is usda certified and I feel Lind of dooped and somewhat irritated. My whole purpose was to avoid conventional chemicals as well.

Expert did a fair and accurate representation. It is very difficult to prevent GMO pollen from blowing many miles to pollenate a non-GMO flower in a field otherwise managed to meet organic production criteria. The intent is there to provide an Organically raised product.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

mkm2,

We just harvested our first two meat chickens yesterday and they were puny! 5 month old roosters, sigh...we have about 23 more. They free range all day, so I thought they would be getting enough protein from bugs etc.

I am feeding no corn and no soy also. I was using scratch and peck for chick feed, but I couldn't continue to pay that price. I have been mixing my own - not all organic, but local, and fermenting as well (about half and half) What animal based protein do you use in your feed when you mix your own?

I am thinking about sprouting and adding that to the fermented grains...sprouts are supposed to boost the protein content dramatically. Any thoughts?

THANKS,

momto6Ls

Fermenting destroys the best part of the protein in a chickens' ration. There is an old saying that you can hear everything but "meat a frying and cash money a rattling." Well this is true of fermented chicken feed.

 

[momto6Ls]

The dirty little secret is that Organic Crops are treated with some of the oldest and most toxic chemicals known to farming. Things like Neem Oil, Ronote etc. Most non Organic or Genetically Modified crops are never sprayed with the same class of deadly chemicals.

I know that there'll be some who will deny that Organic Crops are sprayed with pesticides of any kind, but the dirty little secret is that they are.

I believe this heart and soul. It has been years, but I saw a list of "approved chemicals" for organic and it cured me of ever buying anything organic on purpose. I bought the scratch and peck only because it was no corn or soy. I believe that the GMO food is much more dangerous than the chemically sprayed food. We can detoxify chemicals from our body. GMO is much more difficult to deal with.

I try to buy local so that I know it is fresh, and I want to raise as much of my own meat as possible so I know what it has been eating, and that it is not medicated. The whole organic thing is just bunk, to me, to get people to pay more money.

It bothers me that so many stores/outlets today don't have any option other than organic...if it is less expensive than the non-organic option I will usually get it...unless we are talking about seeds. I have had too many experiences of bugs in my food when I have bought seeds in bulk - sesame seeds or flax seeds for example. I would prefer NOT to buy organic. If I have an option I always buy the non organic.

Fermenting destroys the best part of the protein in a chickens' ration. There is an old saying that you can hear everything but "meat a frying and cash money a rattling." Well this is true of fermented chicken feed.

I am gonna have to do more research. This is not the information I have found on fermented feed. It is my understanding that the animals are healthier, happier, and eat less when fed fermented feed. (all of which has been my experience) If it destroyed the protein I would think they would eat more because their body requires the protein. Also - my animals crave it! They come running - goats as well as chickens - as soon as they know I have sourdough to feed them. They fight over it! LOL With all the options of feed I have offered, soaked grains and sourdough are definitely the favorites. Now goats are different - they will eat until it kills them - but chickens eat what they need. They will choose what they need if given options. Hmmmmm.

I only fed fermented grains (sometimes only soaked, not fermented) every other day. Sometimes they had the option (I have 2 feeders and I would only fill the feeder/s that were empty) and they always finished the soaked/fermented grain before the dry...if it is nutritionally inferior, can anyone explain this?

If anyone has any other thoughts or more info - any articles - I would be happy to read them.