International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[BrahmasMama02]

Symmetry 3/4


Weight or size 3/4
Good big looking cockerel.

Condition & vigour 8/10
Healthy looking, active boy.

Comb 3/5
This may change as he matures.

Beak 3/3
Nice, simple and deep.

Skull & face 3/4
Not too big, nice skull shape.

Eyes 3/4
Well coloured but not as bright, deep orange or red as they could be

Wattles 2/2
Good and round

Earlobes 1/4
Too pale, but this will probably improve as he ages.

Neck 3/6
Not full enough.

Back 11/12
fantastic, long and flat, great marans back.

Tail 5/8
quite full and I like the feathers, not too high too. Just a little too long.

Wings 6/8
This might improve as more red grows in them. Held up well and tight.

Breast 7/10
Could be fuller and deeper, might fill with age, but certainly still a great marans type.

Body & fluff 7/8
Stunning, almost perfect body type long and wide.

Legs & toes 4/8
Coloured and feathered well from what I can see in the photos. Legs look a little too long and too close to each other.

Overall: 72/100. Please note I’m no professional judge, but I’m trying to give a more quantitative evaluation of people’s birds.

I could see this improving to 80+/100 when he gets older and his face matures. Very good marans cockerel, one of the best I’ve seen at his age for a while. Has lots of potential and his type could easily contribute to a great future line of marans. Well done.

Thank you!

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Just out of curiosity, I'm in Michigan. View attachment 3839012View attachment 3839011

The sadder thing is when I said halfway across the country, I meant halfway across England, not even the entire of Britain!

We conquered a third of the world but now consider a three hour drive a long way!

 

[wrathsfarm]

Symmetry 3/4


Weight or size 3/4
Good big looking cockerel.

Condition & vigour 8/10
Healthy looking, active boy.

Comb 3/5
This may change as he matures.

Beak 3/3
Nice, simple and deep.

Skull & face 3/4
Not too big, nice skull shape.

Eyes 3/4
Well coloured but not as bright, deep orange or red as they could be

Wattles 2/2
Good and round

Earlobes 1/4
Too pale, but this will probably improve as he ages.

Neck 3/6
Not full enough.

Back 11/12
fantastic, long and flat, great marans back.

Tail 5/8
quite full and I like the feathers, not too high too. Just a little too long.

Wings 6/8
This might improve as more red grows in them. Held up well and tight.

Breast 7/10
Could be fuller and deeper, might fill with age, but certainly still a great marans type.

Body & fluff 7/8
Stunning, almost perfect body type long and wide.

Legs & toes 4/8
Coloured and feathered well from what I can see in the photos. Legs look a little too long and too close to each other.

Overall: 72/100. Please note I’m no professional judge, but I’m trying to give a more quantitative evaluation of people’s birds.

I could see this improving to 80+/100 when he gets older and his face matures. Very good marans cockerel, one of the best I’ve seen at his age for a while. Has lots of potential and his type could easily contribute to a great future line of marans. Well done.

I really like how you did that. Extremely helpful... I may have questions about how you came to each score, but again super helpful.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

I really like how you did that. Extremely helpful... I may have questions about how you came to each score, but again super helpful.

Yes the scoring is probably going to seem a bit random sometimes until I get used to it. Luckily you’ll have plenty of chicks for me to score soon. And then I will too when the cuckoos hatch. I might use the American point breakdown even for English types because it breaks down each part further to allow you to see the real strengths and weaknesses.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

@wrathsfarm and anyone else, would you like to suggest what should be 0, half and full points in each judging category. More minds the better. You might also have more experience with the typical American Marans so know what the average should be.

 

[Tstraub]

Here are some updated pictures of my boy Axl. Hatch date was June 26 2024 so he is just shy of 11 months old. I know that he is nowhere even close to SOP so I’m using him to breed olive Eggers not Marans. I won’t be offended with a low score and believe me you can’t hurt his feelings he thinks he is perfect just the way he is.

I only paid $20 for 2 dozen hatching eggs from a local guy and never expected anything more than pet quality birds that lay pretty eggs. If I ever get real serious about tying to breed SOP Marans I’ll search out a better quality bloodline

His comb did suffer some frost damage over the winter so the points are not as sharp as they originally would have been.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Here are some updated pictures of my boy Axl. Hatch date was June 26 2024 so he is just shy of 11 months old. I know that he is nowhere even close to SOP so I’m using him to breed olive Eggers not Marans. I won’t be offended with a low score and believe me you can’t hurt his feelings he thinks he is perfect just the way he is.

I only paid $20 for 2 dozen hatching eggs from a local guy and never expected anything more than pet quality birds that lay pretty eggs. If I ever get real serious about tying to breed SOP Marans I’ll search out a better quality bloodline

His comb did suffer some frost damage over the winter so the points are not as sharp as they originally would have been.

View attachment 3839417View attachment 3839418View attachment 3839419View attachment 3839421

I’m going to use the English Judging criteria because I realised the one I used doesn’t really have a category for colour.

Type, quality, table merits (40): 20
Big let down is the tail: too long and high, looks slightly wry. Coverts and main sickles don’t flow together. No white at base though, and not too open. Body lacking depth and length slightly, good and wide throughout.

Size and quality (20): 14
I can’t see his actual size in person but he seems big compared to the hens. No missing feathers and well feathered.

Colour and markings (15): 7
Correct amount of copper mostly but it is far too pale and rusty. Needs to be redder and deeper. No white though, which is good.

Head (10): 7
Comb seems to be the right size and evenly serrated, just frost bitten. Eyes perfectly red, wattles and lobes good but some imperfections, and beak excellent. Classic marans face. Good and red.

Condition (10): 7
Comb damage can’t be avoided sometimes and it won’t be passed on, just reduces his own show quality. Looks clean and no injury.

Legs and feet (5): 3

I can’t decide if they are coloured correctly, also have not enough feathers in the shanks. Well set apart though.

Overall: 63/100

Maybe the result of a previous breeder breeding only for egg colour, or just with little knowledge. Some very redeeming qualities sadly let down by a couple of large faults.

I want to stress that 63 is not a terrible score, above your average hatchery quality marans (probably around a 50). Some smart pairings with good hens could produce some good progeny.

I know I’ve commented on him before but I thought the scoring might be helpful. It’s helpful for me to practice judging them so I get used to identifying quality birds.

 

[Tstraub]

I’m going to use the English Judging criteria because I realised the one I used doesn’t really have a category for colour.

Type, quality, table merits (40): 20
Big let down is the tail: too long and high, looks slightly wry. Coverts and main sickles don’t flow together. No white at base though, and not too open. Body lacking depth and length slightly, good and wide throughout.

Size and quality (20): 14
I can’t see his actual size in person but he seems big compared to the hens. No missing feathers and well feathered.

Colour and markings (15): 7
Correct amount of copper mostly but it is far too pale and rusty. Needs to be redder and deeper. No white though, which is good.

Head (10): 7
Comb seems to be the right size and evenly serrated, just frost bitten. Eyes perfectly red, wattles and lobes good but some imperfections, and beak excellent. Classic marans face. Good and red.

Condition (10): 7
Comb damage can’t be avoided sometimes and it won’t be passed on, just reduces his own show quality. Looks clean and no injury.

Legs and feet (5): 3

I can’t decide if they are coloured correctly, also have not enough feathers in the shanks. Well set apart though.

Overall: 63/100

Maybe the result of a previous breeder breeding only for egg colour, or just with little knowledge. Some very redeeming qualities sadly let down by a couple of large faults.

I want to stress that 63 is not a terrible score, above your average hatchery quality marans (probably around a 50). Some smart pairings with good hens could produce some good progeny.

I know I’ve commented on him before but I thought the scoring might be helpful. It’s helpful for me to practice judging them so I get used to identifying quality birds.

Thank you for your reply. His legs are pretty dirty in those pictures. I recently expanded the outside run and I have been waiting for them the eat down most of the grass before adding more wood chips. So when it rains it gets pretty muddy and the chickens love digging up worms when they get the chance.

For most of his life his legs have been mostly slate in color with very little pink. When the spring hormones set in they did pink out some but not as pink as the examples of correct color that I have seen.

I think the previous breeder was mostly just multiplying chickens not truly breeding for any specific traits. He had about a half dozen breeds of chickens and turkeys in separate breeding pins. At the time I didn’t think anything of it but the more I learn about breeding the more I realize how much work it is to do it right. I believe that guy might have been trying to do too many things at once.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

I was just scrolling back through to see some of @Chooks man ’s best roosters such as Conan the Barbarian.
It’s such a shame we don’t have he input, I forgot exactly how gorgeous his marans truly were. They almost had an Orpington like quality to them, that’s how chunky and well fleshed they were.

I also kinda miss saying ‘I’m no expert so wait to see what Chooks man has to say.’ at the end of my commmets.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Plot twist....