International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[KF0002]

I have named the Cockerels so from now on #1 is Bello 6 months old #2 is Claude 5 months old and #3 is Antonio 5 months old. I went with ABC. You have seen a lot of Antonio and Bello. This is Claude.

This roo has beautiful type. The only thing I see is that his hackle has a lot of gold in it where it should be copper. The hackle and saddle feathers ideally should match and be copper. He looks like his comb has an extra point but that doesnt knock him out as a keeper. Ive been told to breed for type above anything else because it is the hardest trait to get right. The other stuff can be more easily corrected with good breeding and culling practices. I would hang onto him. You never know when a varmint might strike and take your most precious chickens. It is always good to have backups.

 

[Chooks man]

attention every one .
look at the sun does to the color.
witch one is a real one ? because on the one on the right the copper color is great .but on the left one with a sun is pure golden .

RedBank you have to tell us what his exact color . the real one not through photos.

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

sorry the photos are in different order now after I posted them .

so the one on the right is the bottom one.

the one on the left is the top one.

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

This roo has beautiful type. The only thing I see is that his hackle has a lot of gold in it where it should be copper. The hackle and saddle feathers ideally should match and be copper. He looks like his comb has an extra point but that doesnt knock him out as a keeper. Ive been told to breed for type above anything else because it is the hardest trait to get right. The other stuff can be more easily corrected with good breeding and culling practices. I would hang onto him. You never know when a varmint might strike and take your most precious chickens. It is always good to have backups.

the egg color is the most complex .
if you don t have t in your flock NO genetic planing or selective breeding going to get them dark. you have to have the genes needed, after that is the breeding and the selection .

type could be achieved by crossing the no related chooks together to produce the next generation . that will give a hybrid vigor , bigger chook and better.. if we do that few generation we ll get the type
type could be made BUT the dark egg must have the genes ( we can not make a leghorn hen to lay a number 4/5 colored egg .doesn t matter ho elaborate and complex are our breeding programs.)

For me eggs first .
I do no show and I ll never show my marans tell the marans hen is exhibited with her egg ( type and egg together ) .is like the dairy cow can not be exhibited without her lactation ( yield of her milk production over one year) except if she is a heifer than the lactation of her mother should be known .

that is a problem I m facing with the show organizer . what this story with this pretty hens ho can not lay dark egg.

I m breeding them to restore what they lost . so I m taking every trait seriously . one day I ll have all the marans varieties fully restored to they full glory .FRENCH MARANS HEN la poule de marans.

chooks man

 

[Red Banks]

Quote: A very worthy cause Chooks Man. I have been thinking about the SOP difference between France and USA. I studied them side by side (I will post when I get the project finished) but I decided I don't care what the USA standard reads. I don't think I can go wrong breeding toward the French standard. I am going to be ostracized for that statement no doubt.

 

[Red Banks]

attention every one .
look at the sun does to the color.
witch one is a real one ? because on the one on the right the copper color is great .but on the left one with a sun is pure golden .

RedBank you have to tell us what his exact color . the real one not through photos.

chooks man

You can see he was standing in the bright sun so it looks lighter than it is but....... it is not a good copper, not what I want to see. It is going to rain today so I took pictures with no bright sun. He has a halo.

A lot of us have been told our birds are no good, just a total dismissal without much of an explanation or a plan to correct what is wrong. Perhaps some of them were way past fixing. We can't learn without good examples of how it applies to the SOP. That is why I am always so quick to dismiss a bird. I like that we are looking at what we have. Is the bird fixable or a cull, how do we fix it and what does the SOP read. That is why I posted pictures of good birds, like the LP roosters. We will learn to be breeders. We can't keep discouraging everyone. They come with good intentions, they (me too) just don't know what to do. We don't understand how the words convey to an actual bird, the visual. We are all spread across the country and can't help each other except in correspondence. This is a tough breed for many reasons. I have been discouraged and I have gone thru a lot of BCMs.

 

[Red Banks]

Bello on the move. I was taking pics of Claude.

 

[Chooks man]

what the shot he s really going for t. GORGEOUS shanks color.

he s going a help getting a great BCM chicks this breeding season .

BELLO is Bello

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

here another good much for him ( NOT COMB BREEDING ) type and pattern color.
here black is so black and pure she must carry a right type Melanin and a little copper on her hackle will help eliminate the Gold .
his red shoulders ,coppery ears tufts and a well marked chest will put hackles on the his girls and a gorgeous body color for his boys.

this sort of mating when the fault are expressed is easier than what people think. BECAUSE we know the quality and the fault. ho is bringing what to the breeding pen.

here how I ll work with this pair. Claude and BB hen = with this mating I do not worry about the type and the body color BECAUSE they are there I know that .he s a great type and she too s
I ll mate them and get 48 eggs from them to go to the bator.
hatch what I can and size them for 6 weeks.
at this age I ll choose the best 10 best on the comb , leg feathers and a green eyes . this will be my priority and they are easy to spot at this age , than type easy to spot too at this age.last thing is the body color very hard to tell ( does not bother me. I ll get that later)
So now I selected my best 10 from 1 be the best and 10 be the worst. the rest will go to the pet chop . pullet $15 back yard layer and the cockerel for one bag of feed ( they get sold to the Asian as meat birds .they go fast ). I managed to cut all my expenses now only left with 10 chicks.

wen they grow I ll choose 1 to 3 pullets F1 with a best comb and dark eggs color plus pretty eyes or close to be correct if I can . than I ll mate them to they Father Claude F0 to get F2 . this time I ll keep all the 20 BECAUSE will be a lot gorgeous one .worthy to feed .

For the cockerels I ll keep 2 F1 good colored eyes. great copper pattern . great comb = mate them to they mam F0 = get the F2 and keep about 20 best one.

Now in the year 2 I should have mam and dad and around 40 F2 chicks related but different .with variation. man and dad can retire now .

I ll select better chooks from the F2 progeny. I only need 2 trio to start a 2 new lines of well colored and better looking chooks.

selecting. mating , hatching ,razing , selecting . culling very heavy . Do t for few years DO NOT ADD ANY NEW BLOOD WHEN YOU ARE WORKING IN SORT OF PROJECT. and you will have a good chooks

we can add new blood if needed on the 3 rd year when we are forming the 2 line .one we have to keep t pure and inbred the second we add to t what needed. if some thing goes wrong with the new blood line .than we still have the original one intact .

hope is not too much bla bla.

if we can find a faultless hen we don t have to go through all this. different route.

chooks man

 

[Red Banks]

here another good much for him ( NOT COMB BREEDING ) type and pattern color.
here black is so black and pure she must carry a right type Melanin and a little copper on her hackle will help eliminate the Gold .
his red shoulders ,coppery ears tufts and a well marked chest will put hackles on the his girls and a gorgeous body color for his boys.

this sort of mating when the fault are expressed is easier than what people think. BECAUSE we know the quality and the fault. ho is bringing what to the breeding pen.

here how I ll work with this pair. Claude and BB hen = with this mating I do not worry about the type and the body color BECAUSE they are there I know that .he s a great type and she too s
I ll mate them and get 48 eggs from them to go to the bator.
hatch what I can and size them for 6 weeks.
at this age I ll choose the best 10 best on the comb , leg feathers and a green eyes . this will be my priority and they are easy to spot at this age , than type easy to spot too at this age.last thing is the body color very hard to tell ( does not bother me. I ll get that later)
So now I selected my best 10 from 1 be the best and 10 be the worst. the rest will go to the pet chop . pullet $15 back yard layer and the cockerel for one bag of feed ( they get sold to the Asian as meat birds .they go fast ). I managed to cut all my expenses now only left with 10 chicks.

wen they grow I ll choose 1 to 3 pullets F1 with a best comb and dark eggs color plus pretty eyes or close to be correct if I can . than I ll mate them to they Father Claude F0 to get F2 . this time I ll keep all the 20 BECAUSE will be a lot gorgeous one .worthy to feed .

For the cockerels I ll keep 2 F1 good colored eyes. great copper pattern . great comb = mate them to they mam F0 = get the F2 and keep about 20 best one.

Now in the year 2 I should have mam and dad and around 40 F2 chicks related but different .with variation. man and dad can retire now .

I ll select better chooks from the F2 progeny. I only need 2 trio to start a 2 new lines of well colored and better looking chooks.

selecting. mating , hatching ,razing , selecting . culling very heavy . Do t for few years DO NOT ADD ANY NEW BLOOD WHEN YOU ARE WORKING IN SORT OF PROJECT. and you will have a good chooks

we can add new blood if needed on the 3 rd year when we are forming the 2 line .one we have to keep t pure and inbred the second we add to t what needed. if some thing goes wrong with the new blood line .than we still have the original one intact .

hope is not too much bla bla.

if we can find a faultless hen we don t have to go through all this. different route.

chooks man

This is exactly what I need to read. I am going to reread it several times to digest it all.