International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[Chooks man]

Here's the 1st two to hatch. Down color looks correct with number 2 least desirable? That one has a lot of white in shank feathers. Took a good long look at feet and legs and decided they look fine... As hatchlings. If any crooked legs come about they may not show until later one. But I'm on the lookout. View attachment 1139070

Down hatch color... I got into a bit of an argument with another Marans breeder on one of my Facebook group marans breeder pages. I am still so so new but I respect y'alls advice and knowledge more than anyone else. Someone had posted a pic of their chick. It was full on yellow on the front half of the chicks body and there were commenter saying "Bring them back in 3 or 4 months and perhaps we might make some guesses. Trying to grade baby chicks Is in my mind useless" and I chimed in and said "Actually, hatchling pics are very telling. I have found that chicks that hatch out with penguin type are ones with parasitic white. Unfortunately, parasitic white has run rampant in many of the flocks here in the US. I've been working on breeding it out of my line. I do not keep chicks that hatch with a lot of white."


Let me just post the screenshots

View attachment 1139071
View attachment 1139072
Went on to say the black with the big swath of yellow covering the whole front of the chick is actually closer to E down type.
View attachment 1139073 View attachment 1139074

I am very new and did not want to act like some sort of authority but I also wanted to spread some knowledge!

you are alright and they are wrong .
minimum white marking on the chicks is the proper ER/ER ( BCM .BLCM BIR.SCM and a GCM .they are all from the same family genetic ) chicks hatch down .

let them talk .keep to your breeding program .one day you ll get there .

chooks man

 

[littlepeeps81]

o improve the egg color will require tightening up of your breeding program in future breedings. Set up a breeding program and work with what you have if at all possible. If you out cross it will take a minimum of two year to get back to where you are now. Wishing you luck.

snowbird, thank you. Now that we think that Magpie is a cockerel I will keep this LP line pure. We will see what happens.

 

[kcrandall]

Question for all, Does any one think there is a correlation relating to the width of the Black in the Hackle to any of the faults in the BC. I know about the wide flame male causing the female hackle to have less color.

Snowbird,

Good question, I haven't thought about that possibility but I will certainly observe my birds and future hatchlings to see if I notice any positive or negative characteristics. This could be a fun study to see how different lines compare.

Take Care,
Keith

 

[littlepeeps81]

Thank you!
We are proud of his looks.
I wonder where he got the lighter colors?
Is it in the breed? Or just the Breeders?

LadyRed, did you say that your cockerel was from a hatchery? I couldn' t remember. Most of the time hatcheries breed their birds for high yield egg production, and don't really focus on body type ect. In this way the breeds tend to loose some of their integrity. Sometimes they even cross different breeds together. I know I was tempted to buy some silver cuckoo marans once, but I have heard tell they cross them with barred rocks to help increase egg production. I am not saying hatchery birds are bad, but they are not always carefully selected to improve on the breed. Like I said, your cockerel may not be from a hatchery, and I am not slamming hatchery birds. He is very pretty. I think his hackle color is really cool looking, just wouldn' t meet the SOP.

 

[snowbird]

I picked out two pullets to pen up to use as breeders. Both are Mud (FRF) x LA. I wanted to go ahead and get them caught up to keep anything from happening to them. I am losing one here and there so I didnt want to chance losing these.

This is #12.
View attachment 1137085
And this is #8
View attachment 1137086

Both have the best type and tail angle of the bunch. #8 has darker eyes but other than that I am really looking forward to seeing what they throw.

Oh and I penned up my best blue copper pullet. Almost forgot about her.

I really like #12, very nice pullet.

 

[Chooks man]

Question for all, Does any one think there is a correlation relating to the width of the Black in the Hackle to any of the faults in the BC. I know about the wide flame male causing the female hackle to have less color.

what a good question snowbird and very important one too .

like you know the flames on the hackle are governed by the restrictor genes ( Columbian Co and Dark Brown Db) plus other coalition of genes not explained to us yet ( flames on BCM hackle and all the ER family genetic )
we know the marans ER family genetic does not have the Co neither the Db genes so we are than facing the collation genes ,it is reason they have flames .

what we are noticing in the marans ER family genetic stock is =
1) ER/ER Rooster hackle have a wider flames more than half of the feather or they cut through all the length of the feather making the feather look more black bordered with copper or silver rather than copper or silver feathers marked in the middle with a thin black strip . this type of Rooster will throw pullet with black hackle with a minimum copper or silver . when we look at the hackle of those pullets we see they have a black feather borders with a minimum copper or silver ( like sussex type hackle) not a colored feather . those pullets have a minimum copper /silver on they hackle BUT not all black .
what causing the hackle feathers on the pullet to go all black is more related to other Autossomal Red genes like the shoulder color .the spotted chest and the rears tuft of the Rooster.

2) ER/ER Rooster hackle with a thinner flames ( less hackle marking) just at the bottom . each feather should be colored ( copper or silver) with a thin black stripes . the pullets from this Rooster will have a colored hackle with a minimum flames .

3) ER/ER Rooster hackle with a super wider flames starting from the head down to the bottom . all the pullets will have a black hackles .
we see a lot of those type and the black hens with a little copper on the top of they neck where does joint the head .

the problem we are having with our ER/ER marans stock is they standard is not well defined .
the standard does not specify if the hackle should be open at the front with a black tie or closed .eding bad Birchen strain ,that what causing us too much trouble with a Black hens.
the ER( true Birchen strain name) should not have a black tie .the upper part of they neck and they chest should be spotted all the way down BUT not a ER marans .they want them with less spot on the chest or all black that all nothing else to work with .
actually we are breeding bad Birchen strain . we are minimizing the color on the chooks so we can have minimum body marking .

here how I see it in the order ;
1) amount of the flames on the Roo will dictate the type of the hackle on his girls .
2) the color of the ears tufts and the redness of the shoulder on the Roo will dictate the color of the hackles on his girls.
3) the amount of the spot on the Roo chest will dictate the balance of his girls body color.
4) the lushness of the lancet on the Roo will dictate lushness of his girls hackles .

My personal opinion and own study /research of the marans chooks breed .

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

Chooks man, here is a side shot with the head. Sorry I didn't get the legs. He is clean legged unfortunatly, but I know that can easily be fixed in his progeny! I know he must be a cockerel because the color is coming on more quickly. Here is a new pic.

for sure you not going to get any egg from this pullet .

he is pretty well colored cockerel when fully matured .
his weakest point will be his comb I last 2 points are joint or look like and his tail may be open /bushy

chooks man

 

[Chooks man]

Here they are!! Meh!!

they are lighter but they are for sure marans eggs . I like the dark spot on them .

when pullet lay those sort of colored eggs we need to mate them to they full brother to recombine the genes in different manner ,
we do this for one or 2 generation only if we are working to improve the egg color .

my Birchen hen Scandinavian the mother of my line used lay number 3/4 colored eggs . Now here pure progeny F4 ( 4th generation ) are laying 4.5 and 6 ( Copenhagen and Oslo).

selective breeding is a good way to improve any line without adding to it .

chooks man

 

[littlepeeps81]

for sure you not going to get any egg from this pullet .

he is pretty well colored cockerel when fully matured .
his weakest point will be his comb I last 2 points are joint or look like and his tail may be open /bushy

chooks man

Thank you for the critique!

 

[littlepeeps81]

they are lighter but they are for sure marans eggs . I like the dark spot on them .

when pullet lay those sort of colored eggs we need to mate them to they full brother to recombine the genes in different manner ,
we do this for one or 2 generation only if we are working to improve the egg color .

my Birchen hen Scandinavian the mother of my line used lay number 3/4 colored eggs . Now here pure progeny F4 ( 4th generation ) are laying 4.5 and 6 ( Copenhagen and Oslo).

selective breeding is a good way to improve any line without adding to it .

chooks man

Chooks man, thank you so much for the guidance!! Magpie is their full brother. I will do this and see what happens. It may take awhile, but hopefully somewhere down the line I can get a darker egg. Thank you for sharing your personal experiences.