Introducing young chickens to a flock and separating food

[Castlewood]

All,
I know this is a tired question and conversation. I've searched and read through several posts on when to integrate new chickens with an existing flock. Seems like there are a lot of opinions, so why not ask for one more. This is a bit of a play on the question and a pointed question on the cautions of mixing feed.

I currently have 3 established layers that are sequestered into their own hen house and run. They have plenty of space in their run and they range once or twice a week. Confined, they have layer feed, scratch, and some bug treats for food. I'm sure they think they have it made not knowing by the end of the year, they'll have new roommates.

I have several stages of growers: 8 week olds, 5 week olds, and 2 week olds. All of these girls are separated from each other. The layers, 8 week olds and 5 week olds all share common boundaries though and can see each other through hardware cloth to get to know each other. As the 2 week olds grow, I'll add them to have a shared view as well. All of these birds are on strictly grower feed, chick grit, some kitchen greens and I'm assuming bugs from their foraging in their outside run.

My questions are:

1. Do I keep the non-layers separate until their first egg and then migrate them in to the layers' house/run? I'm concerned here about the different feeds. Should I be concerned about non-layers eating the layer pellets? and vice versa.
2. With the staggering ages of the non-layers, what is a good age to consolidate the youngs in with the older, non-layers? The 5 week olds are incredibly intimidated by the 8 week olds. Just three weeks difference, but size-wise - considerable. I'm thinking that as the birds hit the 12 week mark, they'll go into a consolidated pen. Am I overthinking it?

Thanks! -C

 

[Mtnboomer]

1. Grower/starter feed is fine for all the birds, but it does not contain sufficient calcium for the layers. There is some documentation to support concern over feeding young birds (under 18wks) layer feed as the high calcium can cause potential health issues long term.

I do. At 8 wks my youngsters are too big for their brooders and are moved outside to a coop/run. There they remain for 2 more months before being butchered (roos) or integrated to the free ranging adults and are fed pellets. Its a little cheaper. If the eat anything other than starter feed or crumbles, includings bugs, treats, greens, etc they will need access to grit. I butcher all my birds in a cycle that limits their maximum age to 10 months for the layers, so no worries about the long term effects of high calcium at a young age.
2. The reason for the 2 month detainment answers question #2. The young birds are introduced at 4 months because that is when they are about 2/3s the size of the adults and can defend themselves better. It also provides 2 months of opportunity to be seen, heard, and feed alongside each other while protected by the fencing. When the day comes to go outside, there is still some squabbling but its very shortlived and usually within hours everyone is happy.

The wrinkle for you is the staggered ages. In your case, I would still wait until each age group is close to adult size and then do staggered introductions. All the while allow all the birds as much time to be safely near each other.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The young birds are introduced at 4 months because that is when they are about 2/3s the size of the adults and can defend themselves better.

Have you actually seen a 4 month old pullet not yet laying stand up to a mature hen and fight back? I never have. I know I haven't seen everything there is to see but mine run away if they get pecked or just avoid as much as they can to start with. Cockerels are a different story.

@Castlewood I have one of those other opinions. I'm talking about brooder-raised chicks, not broody-raised with the flock. There is a difference. I don't know what you mean by "plenty of space" in the run, often it's not as much as you might think when it comes to integration. There is a difference into a plain open run where they can see each other and a run with clutter to break line-of-sight. I also do not know what your main coop looks like, either size or layout, especially roost layout. We are all unique and can get different results.

My brooder is in the coop so mine are essentially raised with the flock. My coop is fairly large (8' x 12') and has lots of hiding places. It has a juvenile roost, separate and lower than the main roosts so they have a safe place to roost that is not my nests. Even when the outside is crowded they have over 50 square feet per bird out there. My climate is such that they can and do spend all day every day outside, not trapped in the coop with each other. I have several widely separated feeding and watering stations. I think all these help me out.

If my coop is not too crowded at 5 weeks old I open the brooder door and walk away. After they are all out I clean the brooder and close that door until I need it again. That is it, integration is done.

If I consider my coop will be getting crowded when they grow some, at 5 weeks I put them in my grow-out coop and keep them there until I'm confident they will return there to sleep at night. It has a run so they are still seen by the adults. Usually at around 8 weeks of age I open that grow-our run door and leave it open. They return there to sleep. Typically about the time they hit 12 weeks I train them to sleep in the main coop as room has been created by me eating some of the older ones.

I went through that to explain my experiences and highlight some of the things I think are important. Your situation is different from mine, facilities differences and yours were not raised in the coop. In your situation and with what I think I know about your facilities, my approach would be to keep each younger age group separate. After the older has resided across wire from the adults for a couple of weeks (Totally arbitrary. one week might be enough, four might not be) I'd try opening their door to the main run. Do it when you can observe. If things go well, you have it made. Don't worry about moving them to the main coop to sleep, let them continue sleeping in their chick coop for about a month. After they have been able to mingle with the adults for a month, try moving them into the main coop after dark and lock up access to their old coop. If you lock that main coop overnight I'd be down there at first light to see how they are getting along. I've never had a problem when I do this but you never know. Each brood is different.

Do the same thing with the other groups. Base what you do on what you see. Don't trust me or anyone else as to a timeline. Our flocks are different and our facilities are different. We will get different results.

 

[Castlewood]

Good stuff! Thank you @Mtnboomer

 

[Castlewood]

@Ridgerunner - lots to digest in that response. Good info. Thank you for getting back to me.

Right now, my 3 layers have about 120 sqft of run space that has several low roosts available to them. The hen house (36 sqft) is raised with higher roosts. They're allowed out to a 1/2 acre to range but only a few times a week and one additional full day. The 8 week old chicks have around 210 sqft of run space. The two runs share about 30' of shared wall that is separated by hardware cloth. The chicks don't free range. So the Hens and oldest chicks have had about 2 weeks of time to stare each other down. So far, pretty non-plussed with each other.

My struggle is the 8, 5, and 2 week olds. I think I'll just give them all some shared wall space but separate runs and once we get closer to that mark where their size difference isn't so pronounced, I'll work them in. Fingers crossed.

 

[Mtnboomer]

Have you actually seen a 4 month old pullet not yet laying stand up to a mature hen and fight back? I never have.

Its not just about standing up to them. Its more that they are large enough to take the inevitable abuse without serious injury.
And point to fact yes. I have actually had some 4 month old pullets that were nearly the size of the adult hens (remembering that my "adult" hens are still only 9-10 months old). These birds did hold their own and 1 quickly rose to queen of the coop over the older birds. I butchered her last fall and at 42wks her processed weight was nearly 7lbs (she had a BIG daddy). She is undoubtedly a rare exception. Her sister was only 1/2lb less but was a push over and never made it very high in the pecking order. (As a baseline, most of the 10 month old hens process wts are between 4.5-5.5 lbs).

This is why I don't care so much about age when introductions are made. If the birds are large enough to be chased, harassed, pecked, and beaten on without sustaining injury, then they get to ay hello.

I have also held chicks back to 5mos if they were too small.

Brahmas and orpingtons are all i have ever kept and I have been told that they are very docile breeds compared to others.

 

[Mrs. K]

Personally, I will throw out another idea. I would rather they work it out on their terms not mine. I give my chicks safe zones, where they can eat and drink in peace. Opening too small for the bigger birds to enter, but the chicks can go through like water. Allows the chicks to explore when they are ready, and retreat when they need too.

Lattice pannels work great for 2-3 week chicks. Or chicken wire fencing, at first to the ground, then a week latter just raise the wire up off the ground high enough they can go in or out easily.

I have had good luck with a pallet layed across a single set of cement blocks on the low side. I often feed chicks under this. A big chicken can dig and push herself under that, but it will slow her down so the chicks can easily escape.

I have a huge amount of clutter in my run, places where birds can get out of sight of other birds. Multiple feed stations set up so that while eating at one station, they are out of sight of birds eating at another station. A lot of runs I see are just an open rectangle, where as a bird can see each and every other bird in the run, there is no where to hide or take a time out.

IMO - and note, I have not seen your set up, but often times in the best intentions to keep chicks safe, we keep them in too small of areas, that limits their exercise.

There are thousands of ways to do this hobby, just throwing out some more ideas.

Mrs K

Mrs K

 

[aart]

Have you actually seen a 4 month old pullet not yet laying stand up to a mature hen and fight back?

Have seen a 6-8 week pullet 'stand up' to a hen, actually was the instigator.
It was hilarious.
One good 'henpeck' and it was over.

The wrinkle for you is the staggered ages.

That is indeed a wrinkle. Only did that once, never again.
I integrate chicks young.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/integrating-new-birds-at-4-weeks-old.72603/

Hiding places, and multiple feeders and waterers, are a definite must.
Good ideas for hiding places:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/a-cluttered-run.1323792/