Inventions To Thank Pagans For

[Q9]

Quote:
*Stares blankly* Santa Claus is based on the actual Saint Nick, but was popularized in the mid-1800's by an atheist.

 

[Wynette]

Folks, I want to thank you all...while it's veering off the original topic, you guys are all discussing things that come up in an educated/adult manner; we Staff all appreciate that. Now...carry on! It' been interesting reading, for sure!

 

[deb1]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

Oh yeah the basic principles are different simply due to the monotheism vs poly or pantheism issue. No getting past that.

Heirerarchical issues etc etc..... But, add candles and ritualistic recitations and movements, even (potential dogma bomb here not meant to provoke) the polytheistic aspects of the trinity, then add the transmogrification... It starts to look familiar.


One year I did a major comparison of the worlds major religions. When you scrape of the human rules and dogma you get: Be nice to each other.

The golden rule: do unto others, the wiccan rede: Harm None.

Do we really need all the rest to actually do that?

Apparently. Sacralized rules seem to be the only ones we will follow - most of the time.

Sacramentals! That is what you are referring to. It is one reason-among a host of reasons- that I chose to become Catholic. I love the concept that the divine can touch us through our five senses, whether it be holy water, making the sign of the cross, incense or candles.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not talking about the sacraments (notice the al ending).

Yeah, we just veered off subject. Sorry to the moderators.



Here is a story about the golden rule. Hillel was a Jewish Rabbi. A man came to him mockingly and said, I will convert to Judiasm if you will teach me the whole of the Torah while I stand on one foot. Hillel answered, "That which is hateful to you, don't do to your neighbor. The rest is commentary, no go learn." Jesus' words about loving your neighbor as yourself were probably a take on Hillel's words that his better education audience would have recognized.

Isn't the Wiccan version of the golden rule that what you do to others will come back to you threefold? If I have that wrong, I am apologize.​

 

[schellie69]

The rule of Wicca is do as you will but harm none,
and yes it is believed that what you do will come back on you 3 fold, some say 7 fold and other 9 fold it all depends on what you believe I have really enjoyed reading this thread, and everyone has been so open minded and listen to each other, I have learned a lot, to the one that asked about women in pagan there is usually a female that is the "head witch" or Priestess of the coven. that is what I read in a book.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

When referring to patriarchal vs matriarchal societies there are many ways that society can be assessed. While the Romans were patriarchal and women did not have too much say, they did worship female entities and as such gave quite a bit of power to women. Like many societies it is not so easily cut and dried. Some subcultures were more matriarchal than others. The Celts tended toward matriarchal communities before the Romans showed up, but again, history is written by the victor and the literate. Much of our history from those times has been passed to us through the church which was openly trying very hard to diminish the power of local spiritual leaders regardless of gender.

Like many people see the veiled woman of the middle east s incredibly oppressed, yet in Islam, as a religion, woman have a great deal of rights. Including the right to divorce. It is often not the religion that gives or takes away the rights of a group, it is the culture in which the religion lives that uses it to such ends.



And yes, sacramentals is what I am talking about. What do most religions have in common: holy places, rituals, almost all use some version of fire and water (I find that fascinating it must be so elemental to us as humans) life passage ceremonies (births, weddings, funerals) and frequently the sacralization of current norms.



Spirituality is a different discussion!!


And no pagans didn't invent Santa that I know of.... the popularization of Santa is largely related to an advertising campaign here..... Anybody celebrate Solstice?

 

[Goose and Fig]

Speaking of the solstice- this is a really cool informative site: http://www.religioustolerance.org/winter_solstice.htm

I love how traditions & stories that are strikingly similar evolved in different parts of the world.

Even in more recent history- the stories of the slaves and some of the African elements that they incorporated into Christianity, and then carried to different parts of the country. People that I have met in Tennessee are shocked to find out that all the Baptist churches in the North (Cleveland, anyway) are all black churches.
I have been to several of them, and did a few interviews for the (National Archives) Oral History Project. Fascinating

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

Religious tolerance .org is one of my favorite sites!!

I always ask people if they know why they drag a dying tree into their houses to celebrate christmas. Most don't know. An then when they learn the convoluted means by which things become tradition!!

Like recently there has been a sharp increase in Hign King and other Asian countries celebrating both birthdays and christmas things neither ever celebrated before. Why? Well, ever watch or hear those commercials for On-Star and how they make you feel like you are a bad parent if you don't have it? Same idea. Advertisers showed commercials making it seem as if kids will be socially shunned if their parents failed to have a party and invite everyone. (Guess who sponsored it! McD's) Apartments are small in HK so people rent out party rooms and supplies at McD's. Big money, new tradition for a culture that used to find celebrating your Bday to be arrogant.

 

[deb1]

My own belief is that there are certain truths that a higher power wants us to know. That is why there is a overlap in some practices. Its really amazing when you stop to think about it.

 

[schellie69]

yes I have noticed at least to some people I have talked to that they feel Christmas has become so commercial that they have agreed as a family to go back to a simple Christmas with home made gifts and decorating a tree with popcorn cranberries or homemade ornaments, the last few years I have made gifts for my family from hot chocolate mix, to pumpkin bread and pies, I will do this again this year unless I feed all the pumpkins to my chickens

this year its pillows crochet blankets, tree ornament made from my chicken eggs and quail eggs that were given to me, also making bandanna pillows of kids and small lap quilts the gifts that were homemade seem to make the most impression since people knew that they took time to make. I also make rice bags I don't decorate a tree one year youngest son made one in school and it had all the family's name on it and what he liked about them so we put that up and add waht we thought was nice about him he thought this greatest thing and smiled for days, We usually buy a movie that whole family can watch after we eat on Christmas, it reminds us of what is important Family and a lot of people I know have started going back to Christmas like their grand parents had, Maybe people are getting tried of the commercial holidays just a thought.

 

[deb1]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

Religious tolerance .org is one of my favorite sites!!

I always ask people if they know why they drag a dying tree into their houses to celebrate christmas. Most don't know. An then when they learn the convoluted means by which things become tradition!!

Like recently there has been a sharp increase in Hign King and other Asian countries celebrating both birthdays and christmas things neither ever celebrated before. Why? Well, ever watch or hear those commercials for On-Star and how they make you feel like you are a bad parent if you don't have it? Same idea. Advertisers showed commercials making it seem as if kids will be socially shunned if their parents failed to have a party and invite everyone. (Guess who sponsored it! McD's) Apartments are small in HK so people rent out party rooms and supplies at McD's. Big money, new tradition for a culture that used to find celebrating your Bday to be arrogant.

I think that is sad. I am not against bday parties and holiday celebrations but the emphasis on being selfish that some modern interpretations of those days have caused, really, really angers me.

Please don't tell everyone the origin of the Christmas tree.

I have come across several people, online, who won't celebrate Christmas because they are so terrified of doing anything 'pagan'. Of course, everytime they say the names of the days of the week, they are unknowingly honoring a pagan god.

I don't need one more reason for people to decide that I am not a real Christian ian and needy of evanglization.

I am not putting down anyone who doesn't want to do Christmas. I just don't want any judgment of my own spirituality because I like the trappings of the holiday, pagan or not. I am not referring to anyone on this thread or forum, I have just come across some really unusual people lately