Iowa Blues - Breed thread and discussion

[bigmrg74]

I'm looking to place about 15.

I'm sure you can find homes for all of them.

 

[trailrider330]

Hoping someone can help me understand the color genetics involved with Iowa Blues. Namely, what can one expect to get, color-wise, when breeding Birchen, silver, charcoal or smokey Iowa Blues to each other?

With the blue genetics (BBS) people have broken the color genetics down as follows:

Does anything like this exist for birchen x silver (silver, charcoal, smokey) penciling color genetics involved with Iowa Blues? If not, can anyone offer their input based on their experience? Just curious what colors one could expect to get when breeding the various Iowa Blue colors to each other.

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

[IowaBlueCurt]

Trailrider,

Interestingly enough, the blue gene is not present in the Iowa Blue. One would think it is given the name, and there was much conversation at the time the breed club was formed as to whether the name should be changed because of this. They were given the name because of the blue sheen that existed on the birds as well as the hens looking pigeon blue color from a distance. That said, this does not line up with the APA description of 'blue'. At the present the APA's Standard Committee has said that if the Iowa Blue were to get to the point of APA acceptance, they would keep the name. However, they told the New Hampshire breeders that they could keep the name 'New Hampshire Red' but changed it last minute due to political upheaval in their ranks at the time. So, only time will tell if the name will truly stick. As for now, it has.

All that said, if you're interested in how the colors relate to eachother you'll have to look at the e-locus each of the variations possess.

ER - This is the gene the Charcoals are on. (Birchens are here too, so don't let this confuse you. However, the Birchen color isn't an Iowa Blue color). This gene is dominant to both the e+ and the eb e-locus genes).
e+ - This is the gene the Smokeys are on. It is recessive to ER (Charcoals) and dominant to eb (Silver).
eb - This is the gene the Silvers are on. It is recessive to both ER and e+.

The penciling is broken up by the Db gene. This prevents the double lacing you'll see on the Silver Penciled Rocks and Silver Penciled Wyandottes.

Hope this helps!

 

[karimw]

Color genes in Iowa Blues isn't quite as clear cut as the BBS chart posted above because the dominant genes completely hide what is underneath.
These are the base colors I have in my flock in order of dominance:
Black (E) dominant to everything - almost no color on the chicks, minimal pattern on the adults.
Birchen (Er) dominant - pattern will be improved with the pattern gene, and will be charcoal with the autosomal barring gene.
Smokey (e+) - dominant to silver - lacing with one dose of the pattern gene, penciling with 2 doses. Color improved with autosomal barring
Silver (eb) - completely recessive - color improved with autosomal barring and the pattern gene.

I hope to be able to post pictures soon

 

[karimw]

I'm looking to place about 15.

Sorry to hear it Emily

 

[trailrider330]

Quote:

Trailrider,

Interestingly enough, the blue gene is not present in the Iowa Blue. One would think it is given the name, and there was much conversation at the time the breed club was formed as to whether the name should be changed because of this. They were given the name because of the blue sheen that existed on the birds as well as the hens looking pigeon blue color from a distance. That said, this does not line up with the APA description of 'blue'. At the present the APA's Standard Committee has said that if the Iowa Blue were to get to the point of APA acceptance, they would keep the name. However, they told the New Hampshire breeders that they could keep the name 'New Hampshire Red' but changed it last minute due to political upheaval in their ranks at the time. So, only time will tell if the name will truly stick. As for now, it has.

All that said, if you're interested in how the colors relate to eachother you'll have to look at the e-locus each of the variations possess.

ER - This is the gene the Charcoals are on. (Birchens are here too, so don't let this confuse you. However, the Birchen color isn't an Iowa Blue color). This gene is dominant to both the e+ and the eb e-locus genes).
e+ - This is the gene the Smokeys are on. It is recessive to ER (Charcoals) and dominant to eb (Silver).
eb - This is the gene the Silvers are on. It is recessive to both ER and e+.

The penciling is broken up by the Db gene. This prevents the double lacing you'll see on the Silver Penciled Rocks and Silver Penciled Wyandottes.

Hope this helps!

Curt,

Thank you for the response.

Yes, sorry, I know that the Iowa Blue does not possess the blue (BBS) color gene. I was merely using it as an example as that is one color gene I am familiar with and it is pretty straight forward and easily understood. The BBS color has a handy dandy "cheat sheet" to help people understand what crosses to make in their breeding program to produce certain varieties of the BBS color variation. I was just asking if there was a "cheat sheet" for the color genes responsible for Iowa Blues. However, given that there are a few recessive genes at play (e+ and eb), along with the Iowa Blue modifiers, it sounds like one must first do some test breedings in their flock to determine which set of genes each of their birds has (unless they are Silver as they are double recessive to ER and e+). I think I understand that correctly, if not, please correct me.

It sounds as though replicating the charcoal variation is a little more difficult, even when crossing charcoal x charcoal. Has it been determined which genes are at play here? If ER/ER, ER/e+ and ER/eb all produce Birchen chicks, and charcoal is on the ER gene, where does the charcoal variation enter in? In other words, what crosses are most likely to produce the charcoal variety?

Sorry for all the questions. I am planning on getting some Iowa Blue chicks this spring and want to make sure I have done all my "homework" so my breeding pens can best represent the breed standard. Obviously, color is only one piece of that, but that color is a big part of what originally drew me to the breed.

Thank you!

 

[trailrider330]

Color genes in Iowa Blues isn't quite as clear cut as the BBS chart posted above because the dominant genes completely hide what is underneath.
These are the base colors I have in my flock in order of dominance:
Black (E) dominant to everything - almost no color on the chicks, minimal pattern on the adults.
Birchen (Er) dominant - pattern will be improved with the pattern gene, and will be charcoal with the autosomal barring gene.
Smokey (e+) - dominant to silver - lacing with one dose of the pattern gene, penciling with 2 doses. Color improved with autosomal barring
Silver (eb) - completely recessive - color improved with autosomal barring and the pattern gene.

I hope to be able to post pictures soon

Thanks Kari,

So, if I am understanding this correctly, if one is trying to get charcoal chicks, would the ideal gene pattern be ER/ER, Pg/Pg, Db/Db? And, breeding these two gene patterns together would produce more charcoal chicks? Likewise, would the ideal gene pattern for silver chicks be eb/eb, Pg/Pg, Db/Db? Or, isn't it that "simple" thanks to other genes like Ml?

 

[Candy442]

Thanks Kari,

So, if I am understanding this correctly, if one is trying to get charcoal chicks, would the ideal gene pattern be ER/ER, Pg/Pg, Db/Db? And, breeding these two gene patterns together would produce more charcoal chicks? Likewise, would the ideal gene pattern for silver chicks be eb/eb, Pg/Pg, Db/Db? Or, isn't it that "simple" thanks to other genes like Ml?

We have chick pics to compare what they feathered into as adults I can also post later.

Our charcoals came out of our "mossy" birchen girls. My charcoal rooster JB was VERY dark brown head, but brown nonetheless with an almost black body. Very little greenish yellow fluff on the belly. We have a charcoal girl that was born more golden brown with a "blond" face. She feathered into a dark silver/almost clean smokey pattern. We had another girl that was born all blackish brown and stayed that way...did not even develop the birchen hackle feathers. None of our cockerels ever had the blue duck wing feathers, but there was the presence of red "AR" on my original silver boy and it is showing up in some of the cockerels hatched since (from Gandalf's smokey son Rollo over the hens) JB has thrown light silvers, all black, and smokeys so far. No charcoals seen from him yet, but then again we have only hatched eight of his babies this year without knowing which hens those eggs were collected from.

I would like to see what we get out of him with the mossy birchen and charcoal cousins.

So far our silver boy does not have any "AR".

Bigmrg got four of JB progeny -we sold the all white cockerel recently and we have three that we posted the photos of here a few pages ago.

 

[bigmrg74]

Bigmrg got four of JB progeny -we sold the all white cockerel recently and we have three that we posted the photos of here a few pages ago.

Is that counting the Reject hen you guys gave me, or is she from a different rooster? I lost that one hen and then I sold the one cockerel right before I picked her up.

 

[karimw]

Thanks Kari,

So, if I am understanding this correctly, if one is trying to get charcoal chicks, would the ideal gene pattern be ER/ER, Pg/Pg, Db/Db? And, breeding these two gene patterns together would produce more charcoal chicks? Likewise, would the ideal gene pattern for silver chicks be eb/eb, Pg/Pg, Db/Db? Or, isn't it that "simple" thanks to other genes like Ml?

I would say that genotype for silver would give you the best option for a consistent breeding flock, though I am not certain about Pg and Db. The standard doesn't actually call for penciling on the entire bird, but more of a stippled appearance on the body and tail, so Pg/pg may be preferred for a "show" bird. We aren't trying to produce the perfect pattern that is present in a breed such as silver penciled Plymouth Rocks. I did have a line using them, but the pattern was too perfect if you will, so I eliminated them from my breeding pen. Great layers though

I am not trying to breed for charcoal at all because they are far too dark to ever meet the standard. I have a few in my layer flock for variety and have used them to pull the autosomal barring gene into my chicks.
Here is an example of a smokey chick with the Db

Shown on the left as a hatchling.

Shown here about 2 months old.