Is angel wing genetic?

[Golden Valley Farm]

It does not mean that you cannot breed her. I have some that had heavy wings and the wing flipped out and they are perfect now even as 4 year olds. Some breeds are more prone to this.

 

[Serina81]

So carbohydrates as in the corn we feed them?

 

[Wifezilla]

Corn, soy, wheat....

It's basically just sugar.

In the wild, ducks and geese wouldn't have much access to grains until fall. In spring when they hit that vital growth spurt where angel wing occurs they are munching on weeds, aquatic plants, fish, tadpoles, and bugs. The carbohydrates they get are not so rapidly digestible and not in large quantities.

Since I also have quail I feed my ducks gamebird feed, which is 24% protein. I also give them greens daily. If high protein was the main cause of angel wing, I should have seen a case or two in my flock by now.

I would like to get away from commercial feed all together but can't due to my small space. I do, however, grow as many veggies as I can and then shred and freeze for "duck veggies". Excess zucchini is a cheap supplement. Put the frozen shredded zucchini in a bowl of hot water and let it set for a few minutes, then you have a nice soup that disappears in seconds. They love that on cold days.

I am also trying to get a good compost pile going so I can add red wiggler worms and give the ducks a natural snack.

 

[goosedragon]

Quote:
I do think it is both diet and genetics, but it appears to have more to do with carbohydrates than protein.
http://www.spokanecity.org/services/articles/?ArticleID=1850

Right? feathers are made up mostly of protein so of course to much Carbohydrates causes the feathers to grow in too fast I think not. I'll grant Wifezilla that bread is junk food for geese and ducks but even your best feed is 14-20% protein, 5-10% fiber and usually around 5% fat all the rest is carbohydrates around 65% in the best case. In Wifezilla's favor is the reported fact that geese fed no artificial food are usually free of angel wing. Frankly I like to get geese out on pasture as soon as practical with any supplement to the diet being natural grain, I prefer oats, and I start out with rolled oats (regular long cook oatmeal)sprinkled on top of a good starter feed at day one.

 

[Wifezilla]

feathers are made up mostly of protein so of course to much Carbohydrates causes the feathers to grow in too fast I think not.

Remember, the "experts" used to think that ingested cholesterol caused high blood cholesterol levels in the body and that eating fat makes you fat. Actually it is high fructose consumption, high starch and high sugar consumption that produce blood fats and body fat .

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html
So while "protein feeds protein" may SOUND logical, it isn't necessarily the case.

Frankly I like to get geese out on pasture as soon as practical with any supplement to the diet being natural grain

 

[Goosehaven]

You don't want to feed excessive corn to geese in the warmer months because they don't need the higher carbs like they do in the winter months. In the cold winter months, depending on where you live, they need a little more grain, like corn, because they need it for the energy and it actually helps their body stay warm. If you've been feeding them alot of corn I would cut it down to a very minimum, if any.

 

[Cottage Rose]

Some info on AW
http://cottage_rose_birdsnblossoms.webs.com/angelwing.htm

 

[goosedragon]

Quote:
Remember, the "experts" used to think that ingested cholesterol caused high blood cholesterol levels in the body and that eating fat makes you fat. Actually it is high fructose consumption, high starch and high sugar consumption that produce blood fats and body fat .

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html
So while "protein feeds protein" may SOUND logical, it isn't necessarily the case.Being willing to learn I read and watched your three off site sources. 1st supported what I had learned about sugar and starch being converted to FAT (not protein). the video was about carbs and sugars and their effect on degenerative diseases (not protein) the third was again about carbs and fats and possible cause of being overweight (again nothing directly about protein except that protein might make a good diet replacement for carbs ). Like I said I am willing to learn but nothing you presented really supports you theory that carbs produce proteins. I will stick to proteins (actually amino acids) produce protein until I see evidence that I am wrong. BTW I am on a high protein low carb diet because I am a borderling (untreated) dibetic. Thanks for the thumbs up on how I feed my geese, and have a nice day!~gd

Frankly I like to get geese out on pasture as soon as practical with any supplement to the diet being natural grain

 

[AmberH]

can someone post a picture of angel wing?

 

[Wifezilla]

Like I said I am willing to learn but nothing you presented really supports you theory that carbs produce proteins.

No, I am saying that excess protein isn't causing the twisted bone growth.

One of the things that a diet high in carbohydrates does is increase the need for certain vitamins. One is C. Another is B vitamins like thiamin. I wonder if it messes with biotin levels as well. I know there is some literature about biotin deficiency, skeletal deformity and turkey poults. I will have to dig it up.

many breeders firmly believe that holding the
ducklings back nutritionally, by reducing the amount of protein ingested is a
prerequisite to proper wing formation. They will argue that a high protein diet is
unnatural, and that a slower rate of growth relieves the wing of excessive weight
before it is fully formed. I remain very skeptical about the validity of this argument.
Consider, for one moment, what wild Muscovies eat in their natural habitat; you will
notice that fish, small amphibians and insects are way up there on the menu, making
the consumption of large quantities of protein an integral part of their lives.

From Cottage Rose's Link​