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Is anyone else interested in cars and motorsport?
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So, to eat my own dog food a bit here, wife's new car: Kia EV6Hopefully over time they'll get it down. Cars started life as EV's, and I think the mass market viability will really solidify in the next 10 years or so. There are a couple of major hurdles left:
1. Pricing. EV"s are still 5-10k more than a comparable gas car and that prices a lot of people out of them.
2. charge time needs to be much closer to the time it takes to fill a gas tank, (Ideally 5 minutes or less, 10 minutes tops)
2a. MUCH more public charging infra. Needs to be EV "pumps" at every gas station to really drive adoption.
3. Affordable conversion/replacement parts need to hit the market en masse. Have an old car that needs an overhaul? How about an EV conversion? Have a classic car you want to keep enjoying? How about converting to EV power? The tech is on the market today but 5-10x the cost of rebuilding or replacing a gas engine. Example, to EV convert my 1966 bug is 15-20k USD today. The car isn't worth that. I'd be in at 3-4k because to me that would be an acceptable spend, but because almost every company that does those kinds of conversions is bespoke and there's no competition, the cost is crazy high.
Sorry, kinda wandered off there.
Full electric and to cover a couple of the points I made in that earlier post.:
Fully valid. Sticker on this was higher than a comparable gas model. We had a paid-off trade that was worth quite a bit and some money down to make it reasonable. We will break even on it in 3 years, which isn't actually too bad all things considered.
Both Valid. The largest EV charging infra belongs to Tesla and they're just now starting to open it up to other companies. There are a couple of other places you can charge in public but they're sparse on the ground
Speed is also an issue. At a "super fast" charger I can get to 80% in about 15 minutes, but that's still 3x or more longer than a fill up at a gas pump. We had our own charger installed at home to get better charge rates. A normal US 110v 12a plug is roughly 2% an hour on our model. The 240v/50a unit we got will fully charge it in 4 hours from zero. Was about 900 USD to buy the charger and have an electrician install it. Trade off. it costs me 5 dollars to fully charge it at home at the most. So I will recoup that cost in gas savings in 3 mos.
I road tripped it this weekend about 400 miles round trip. The on-board nav has EV charge locations the car can use programmed in along the way so you can plan stops to charge if needed. However, the quality and operational availability of said chargers may or may not be up to advertised speed, so it's a bit of a roll of the dice on that front.
Some things I had not considered until we bought it:
* 100% AWD torque available as soon as you mash the pedal is addicting. It's only 320 Horses in this model, but when you hit it, it's GONE Even in eco mode. I didn't think I'd like driving it but I'm sold.
* With no engine and drivetrain interfering in the passenger cabin, it's surprisingly roomy inside. There's a ton of leg room between front and rear seats and the rears recline to make for a nice road trip experience.
* Driving an EV is largely driving a quiet car. There's a learning curve to it, but once you get used to it, all the same. The exception is one pedal driving. In a gas car, you let off the loud pedal and the car will coast. You can do that also in an EV, or you can set it for brake regen and it will use the brakes to recover some power and extend your range. Also means you can just let off the gas and the car will brake on it's own with just a small tap on the brake pedal to stop it (like at a traffic light).
The fit and finish are light years ahead of Tesla's. Panels line up, interior bits look and feel nice, it's a nice place to be in and you don't feel like it was slapped together.
Most makers are covering EVERYTHING for at least 5-6 years except brake pads and tires as part of the purchase price. We even get free glass replacement if any of the windows get a chip. It's not zero maintenance cost, but it's pretty darn close, and the battery/powertrain are 10 years.
I'm not ready to give up my twin turbski gas car yet, but I did briefly consider it when I drove the GT model of the EV6
I just bought my first ever new car from a dealership a couple days ago. I watched dozens of youtube vids (mostly from the "CarEdge" YT channel) before going. It was interesting to learn that on a new car sale, roughly 25% of their profit comes from the agreed sale price of the vehicle, and 75% comes from what happens later in the finance office. It was SO beneficial learning how they operate and make money. I would've been a deer in the headlights otherwise...
I got a 2024 Toyota Camry. I drive about 80 miles a day round trip to work so I wanted something good on gas that I could rack some miles up on.
No good pics yet, these are all I have.
For anyone interested, here's a long drawn out explanation of how it went down at the dealer and how I was able to save some money.
I got a 2024 Toyota Camry. I drive about 80 miles a day round trip to work so I wanted something good on gas that I could rack some miles up on.
No good pics yet, these are all I have.
For anyone interested, here's a long drawn out explanation of how it went down at the dealer and how I was able to save some money.
I Think I could've saved a little more but I was still able to save roughly $18,000 in interest, fees, and protection plans/packages that I didn't want on a ~$30K Camry....
First I negotiated the out the door price. The sales guy wanted $30,950. I got him down to $29K OTD after I agreed to finance the car with him. (In hindsight, i probably couldve got him a little closer to $28K, but oh well).
Once in the finance office, I was shown a "menu" with monthly payments ranging from $621-$750 for different levels of protection plans. This is where they get most people. After letting him explain each individual protection package, I asked him what my base payment was if I decided I didn't want any of the plans. He reluctantly said $488/mo. I ended up declining all of the protection plans (extended warranties, gap insurance, dealer service plans, tire/wheel replacement, auto butler car wash, etc). He spent the next 15 minutes basically telling me I'm an idiot for doing this, lol. (Of course he did, they just lost the majority of their profit through the heavy markups on these items).
He gave me a pretty high interest rate of 8% too. Which, according to the YT vids I watched, they usually mark up several percent over what you would actually qualify for based on your credit score to make them more profit (they split the profit of the additional interest with the bank).
Luckily this didn't matter with the game plan I had. I agreed to the 8% interest and we made a deal.
What they dont know is, I'm going to pay the car loan off in full before my first payment (with some cash I had saved up and a 401k loan I just took out). This means I will not pay a single penny in interest to any bank. The interest on my 401k loan goes back into my 401k, so I'm just paying myself interest. That means I paid a total of $29K for this car, "almost" like I had purchased it with cash. (This is just the route I chose and I'm not recommending anyone borrow from their retirement account without weighing the pros/cons. In the long run, it is typically better to finance the car at a very low interest rate with a bank and leave the money in your 401K to earn you ~8-12%).
Had I paid his original asking price, kept the 8% loan with the dealer, and paid the protection package he was pushing the most (the 2nd cheapest one @ $650/mo), I would've ended up paying a total of $46,950 for the car.
Had I chose his top level protection plan ($750/mo), I would've paid $53,250 for the car. I could've bought a new Camry AND a Corolla for that price....
The moral of the story is, do your homework before you go. Shop around for the best interest rates on loans before you go and know exactly what rate you qualify for. Negotiate the OTD price as low as you can with the salesman (you really shouldn't pay more than the MSRP out the door). Agree to finance with them if that's what it takes to get the OTD price even lower (make sure they do NOT have a prepayment penalty. Almost none do and any loan over 60 months will not. My finance officer mentioned they did not have one without me having to ask which was nice). Then refinance with a bank of your choice to get a better interest rate a couple weeks after you get the car. Or tell the dealer about the good interest rate you got approved for and get them to lower their rate. If you want extended warranties or dealer service plans, ask the financial officer to break those plans down into total prices (not monthly prices) so you can see how much each plan adds to the total price of the car. Then you can decide if it's worth it to you. (They WILL negotiate the prices on these plans too, as they are heavily marked up. So if they have a plan you want, get them to show you the total cost of the plan, then talk them down.)
Hope this helps someone in the future...
These were a couple of my favorite vids. The second is basically the full experience, from salesman to the F&I office.
First I negotiated the out the door price. The sales guy wanted $30,950. I got him down to $29K OTD after I agreed to finance the car with him. (In hindsight, i probably couldve got him a little closer to $28K, but oh well).
Once in the finance office, I was shown a "menu" with monthly payments ranging from $621-$750 for different levels of protection plans. This is where they get most people. After letting him explain each individual protection package, I asked him what my base payment was if I decided I didn't want any of the plans. He reluctantly said $488/mo. I ended up declining all of the protection plans (extended warranties, gap insurance, dealer service plans, tire/wheel replacement, auto butler car wash, etc). He spent the next 15 minutes basically telling me I'm an idiot for doing this, lol. (Of course he did, they just lost the majority of their profit through the heavy markups on these items).
He gave me a pretty high interest rate of 8% too. Which, according to the YT vids I watched, they usually mark up several percent over what you would actually qualify for based on your credit score to make them more profit (they split the profit of the additional interest with the bank).
Luckily this didn't matter with the game plan I had. I agreed to the 8% interest and we made a deal.
What they dont know is, I'm going to pay the car loan off in full before my first payment (with some cash I had saved up and a 401k loan I just took out). This means I will not pay a single penny in interest to any bank. The interest on my 401k loan goes back into my 401k, so I'm just paying myself interest. That means I paid a total of $29K for this car, "almost" like I had purchased it with cash. (This is just the route I chose and I'm not recommending anyone borrow from their retirement account without weighing the pros/cons. In the long run, it is typically better to finance the car at a very low interest rate with a bank and leave the money in your 401K to earn you ~8-12%).
Had I paid his original asking price, kept the 8% loan with the dealer, and paid the protection package he was pushing the most (the 2nd cheapest one @ $650/mo), I would've ended up paying a total of $46,950 for the car.
Had I chose his top level protection plan ($750/mo), I would've paid $53,250 for the car. I could've bought a new Camry AND a Corolla for that price....
The moral of the story is, do your homework before you go. Shop around for the best interest rates on loans before you go and know exactly what rate you qualify for. Negotiate the OTD price as low as you can with the salesman (you really shouldn't pay more than the MSRP out the door). Agree to finance with them if that's what it takes to get the OTD price even lower (make sure they do NOT have a prepayment penalty. Almost none do and any loan over 60 months will not. My finance officer mentioned they did not have one without me having to ask which was nice). Then refinance with a bank of your choice to get a better interest rate a couple weeks after you get the car. Or tell the dealer about the good interest rate you got approved for and get them to lower their rate. If you want extended warranties or dealer service plans, ask the financial officer to break those plans down into total prices (not monthly prices) so you can see how much each plan adds to the total price of the car. Then you can decide if it's worth it to you. (They WILL negotiate the prices on these plans too, as they are heavily marked up. So if they have a plan you want, get them to show you the total cost of the plan, then talk them down.)
Hope this helps someone in the future...
These were a couple of my favorite vids. The second is basically the full experience, from salesman to the F&I office.
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Ewwwww
My sister was a vehicle salesfemale forever. I went with her and her husband one time to buy a car. She knew the one she wanted from them going the weekend before window shopping. It was fun watching her destroy the salesman bite by bite. She actually got a camry too. It was the tuned up black edition. The real black edition not just one blacked out
That's awesome! She probably did much better than me, lol. I really enjoyed the experience overall. I bet that was a blast to watch, a true pro at work. I'm sure they still got me some, just not as bad as their average customer I hope...
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You've done better than probably 95% of people by doing your homework. We went just before Christmas looking at a new palisade or however it's spelled and the dude literally told me the price is the price. And we were really looking too. So we said ok and left. Didn't even try to stop us
Nice car! I thought about getting a Tesla, I'm a huge Elon Musk fan. I see them pretty regularly on the road now. Your neighbor did bring up some good points on them though. I think eventually they'll get all the QC stuff worked out.
AWD electric, I bet that Kia rips out of the hole. If I had that kind of torque, I'd be ripping and roaring everywhere. Be like back in my old Mustang days, except quicker and I might even win a race or two, lol....
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I'm definitely not a Ford fan but id love to build me a GT or preferably an LX fox body 5.0
We looked at Teslas. Just did not find the value or fun in them we were looking for so we crossed them off the list (looked at a 3, an X and a Y. Drove the X. Wasn't impressed). I know SDM isn't a fan but I've been impressed with the EV so far and it's filling the need we had for it. ,
Fuel saving daily driver for mostly freeway miles:
A. That isn't a tiny cardboard econobox
B. Has enough power to get out of the way of the insane morons who drive 90 in their lifted clapped-out Ram trucks and have no self or vehicle control skills.
C. Makes the Mrs. Happy.
And yes, It scoots. AWD torque is addicting.
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