Is E. coli opportunistic in chickens?

[alinas2010]

Well I’m not sure what to think. We finished our antibiotics and although she’s starkly different than she was when she started them, I can tell she still doesn’t feel good. It could be that she just needs a few days to recover still, could be her reproductive issues, like we talked about, or I’ve also began to notice that she is molting?

I knew she had been in a soft molt since November and she just slowly kept growing in feathers here and there. Well the past week while she was ill her molt really picked up. It just seems weird that all of a sudden she’s dropping so many feathers. Why would that happen? I really hope she’s just acting “molt-y” and not sick still. We got the herbal cleanse today and had the first dose, she was not the most accepting of it.

 

[coach723]

Illness can sometimes trigger molt, as well as any kind of stress. Hormones play a role also.
See out of season molting here:
https://poultrydvm.com/condition/molting

 

[alinas2010]

Illness can sometimes trigger molt, as well as any kind of stress. Hormones play a role also.
See out of season molting here:
https://poultrydvm.com/condition/molting

Thank you. Dang it, I feel so bad. She must really be unwell and stressed out.

 

[coach723]

Sadly, this kind of thing is not uncommon. Today's chickens have been hybridized and bred to supply us eggs and lots of them, or meat, and they don't much resemble their ancestors. The meat birds of today are genetic freaks (and disasters health wise). The heritage breeds (and those are best obtained from reputable breeders if you are looking for true heritage lines that are bred for health and longevity), and the more game-birdy breeds are closer to their ancestors genetically and tend to have fewer issues, though it can happen to any of them. But humans have decided that lots of eggs, lots of meat, and more docile temperaments so they can be kept easier, are more important than health and longevity. When you breed for getting lots of eggs you are creating an animal that ovulates almost every single day. So if you do the math, a chicken that lays daily will ovulate in just under 2 years as many times as a human will ovulate in their entire lives. That's a lot of hormonal activity and a lot of work for a reproductive system. I know, due to autoimmune and genetic issues in my own family, that genes are grouped and when you change something, other maybe unexpected changes can happen. It's why white Persian cats with blue eyes are deaf. The gene that suppresses pigment also suppresses hearing. It's seen in some dogs when they are bred for a particular trait also, many dogs that have been miniaturized have health issues. Mini horses have a lot of health issues. So, what I'm getting at, is that it isn't generally our fault, we can't do anything about their genetics that they are born with. So it's just a sad fact that in keeping chickens these kinds of illness are going to happen. Not every bird, some still manage to live a fairly long time. But there is a percentage, and some breeds and genetic lines will have a higher percentage over all.

 

[SourRoses]

Since you asked about anti-inflammatories... MSM is the most effective of the non-prescription options. It's natural and inexpensive, also very safe and shouldn't interfere with other medications.

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Lim et al. [21] suggested that dietary MSM can be used from 0.1 to 4.0 g per kg of diet. In addition, the toxic level was defined as 4.85 g/day

 

[coach723]

It appears to be relatively safe. I found this article, on broilers, which contained this:
"In conclusion, oral MSM at either acute (single dose at 1,000 to 2,000 mg/kg BW) or sub-chronic (1,500 mg/kg BW daily for 21 D) concentrations did not cause any adverse effects on growth or clinical outcomes and appeared to be absorbed and distributed throughout the body."
I wouldn't dose that high, this was a study, but indicates that it's likely well tolerated.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31111938/

 

[alinas2010]

How very heartbreaking. She is a sweet chicken and deserves better. They all do. To try to take good care of the world’s most poorly treated species is a tough job. The least I can do is try to give a chicken a good life no matter what type they are. My Ravioli is a heritage breed and has some pretty unlucky issues, too. So there’s just no telling.

Since you asked about anti-inflammatories... MSM is the most effective of the non-prescription options. It's natural and inexpensive, also very safe and shouldn't interfere with other medications.

---

Lim et al. [21] suggested that dietary MSM can be used from 0.1 to 4.0 g per kg of diet. In addition, the toxic level was defined as 4.85 g/day

It appears to be relatively safe. I found this article, on broilers, which contained this:
"In conclusion, oral MSM at either acute (single dose at 1,000 to 2,000 mg/kg BW) or sub-chronic (1,500 mg/kg BW daily for 21 D) concentrations did not cause any adverse effects on growth or clinical outcomes and appeared to be absorbed and distributed throughout the body."
I wouldn't dose that high, this was a study, but indicates that it's likely well tolerated.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31111938/

MSM…I’ve never heard of that. But I love a good study. I’ll read into it and try to find some. I’ll do about anything (safe) to try to help her be a little more comfortable. I just kept reading where in necropsies of chickens with EYP or other similar conditions, there was so much inflammation, I figured that it must be painful if not at least uncomfortable. I want to help her.

 

[coach723]

I completely understand. I have more animals than I should, I also can't help but helping. I have two huge dogs, both rescues, one abandoned on the side of the road at 6 weeks old, the other surrendered by owners that were clueless. A Great Pyrenees and a Great Pyrenees/Rough Collie (lassie) mix. I have two cats that were feral kittens, one has cost me enormously as she has autoimmune issues that could make her blind. 4 cows (well 3 cows and a steer) that do not know they are cows, they think they are dogs, and the sweetest donkey ever. And my 35 chickens. When it rains it pours and there are days I do nothing but animal stuff! But it makes my heart happy.

 

[alinas2010]

I completely understand. I have more animals than I should, I also can't help but helping. I have two huge dogs, both rescues, one abandoned on the side of the road at 6 weeks old, the other surrendered by owners that were clueless. A Great Pyrenees and a Great Pyrenees/Rough Collie (lassie) mix. I have two cats that were feral kittens, one has cost me enormously as she has autoimmune issues that could make her blind. 4 cows (well 3 cows and a steer) that do not know they are cows, they think they are dogs, and the sweetest donkey ever. And my 35 chickens. When it rains it pours and there are days I do nothing but animal stuff! But it makes my heart happy.

Aw you’re a saint. Some people are so…ignorant. Subject for another day. We similarly took on quite a bit, nothing on that scale, but more than we intended. I wouldn’t change any of it, though. In the near future, I hope to take on even more as we move to our forever home. Even though Jafar will probably pass way too soon. I find a small comfort in the fact that with her passing I can open up my heart to heal and open up my home to give one more chicken a decent life, even if it’s just a short one.

That MSM seems great, I really enjoyed reading about it. I’m going to try to find a supplement today.

 

[alinas2010]

I am very sad to report that I think she is going downhill. Her crop has slowed down the past few days and her comb is becoming a little purple on the edges today. She stands about bunched up sometimes but still eats and drinks and does chicken stuff sometimes, too. Shes fighting crop massages, so idk what to make of her. I kept saying I’d wait for her to come out of the molt and see how much of her behavior changed. But it’s so hard to watch her unwell. Then I see her fight me and want to do chicken things and am slightly relieved. It would break my heart to put her down if she still has will to live. This is my first chicken I will have to euthanize, how will I know when to do it?