Is it just me?

[HickoryHollow]

Ok, at the risk of really insulting some people, lol....(I have never been politically correct) I have a question. I am going to copy and paste an ad I just saw on Craig's list. I realize this is just one ad, but it is pretty much a representation of what I see everywhere.

French Marans Chicks Blue or Black Copper Ready For Easter! $5 each straight run. Bev Davis x Wade Jean Lines. Originating in Marans France This Bird is Cherished For it's Very Dark Brown Eggs. Or $50 per Dozen Fertile Hatching Eggs (Cannot Guarantee Hatch %). Call to Reserve: XXX-XXX-XXXX. No Adults or Pullets Available At This Time.

Now, let's look at this. $5 for a straight run peep. Maybe a little high for straight run, but not terrible (I could live with that).
So, if I bought 12 peeps, I would have spent $60.00 and received 12 peeps. That means I truly have $5 a piece in them.

Next option.....Buy 12 "fertile eggs". The same eggs they are putting in the refrigerator and selling as "just eggs" for maybe $3 a dozen. So, let's say I pick them up so there is no shipping. And let's say 2 of them were infertile, and one of them just turns out to be an early quitter.

Now, after I did all the work of incubation, and took all the risks of power outages, etc. I end up with 9 really great healthy peeps for $50 bucks. I now have $5.50 in each peep!

Why would anybody pay $50 for a dozen eggs? I guess I just don't understand, or am really missing something.

 

[Joplus]

As soon as I read that I thought who the heck would pay that?! I bought my BCMs for $20/dozen. I got 11 peeps (one hatched but its guts were out). So I lucked out. I just saw a CL ad for a 4 month BCM laying hen for $60! So huge return on my investment but I was practically house bound for 3 weeks. Serious investment of my time. I would haggle for less, maybe $35 max

 

[One Chick Two]

You asked, so here goes: BCM are a complicated rare breed that takes a tremendous amount of time, patience and energy to build a quality flock. A quality flock does not come cheap.

Anyone can find inexpensive eggs out there, but with these guys, buyer beware! You usually get what you pay for. We found this out the hard way by unintentionally buying breeder's culls.

This breed is still in its infancy in the USA and so they have many issues. High quality flocks with few faults are in short supply. They were only accepted into the APA in 2011, so they have many things to work on still. I would never buy any eggs without seeing the parents first, asking in-depth questions about their flock, and what the breeder is currently working on, and getting a piece of egg that the parent hen lays first. Marans have to lay at least a #4 on the Marans scale to BE a Marans, and #4 is a pretty light egg.

If you are only looking to have darkish eggs and really don't care what you have for hens as you won't ever sell them- then it won't matter at all, and you can get them from anyone selling. However, if you plan on selling quality hatching eggs or chicks- what you have for eggs matters... alot! As if you breed this line without research, you run the risk of ruining your line in only just 3 generations because you didn't know, or, take into account certain aspects of the breed that is extremely important... like, breeding two parents who have the same fault. (Say, white feathers on both, or two parents without leg feathers.) You run the risk of locking in a bad fault if you do that.

Getting dark hatching eggs from a contentious breeder is the best way to get the best quality controlled eggs- but they often cost more, depending on how long the breeder has worked with their flock, how streamlined or fault free the flock is, if the parents are rare SQ and have won awards, or cost of the birds in their area, etc.., there are many additional factors. Doing intense research is imperative if you plan to stick with them for more than a year, and want to help improve the breed.

Ideally, parent stock should have been bred to have good body 'type,' with an eye toward toward SOP standards to get a correct bird. Even with correct birds good breeders often hatch 200 or more chicks per year, then, cull down to the 8-10 best breeders for the year. With these birds, it's not about finding and breeding the two best birds, it is about breeding in what the other parent lacks. For instance, A short backed rooster with otherwise good type and correct body angle should have a long backed hen. A black hen without neck hackles should have a well balanced rooster with up to 10 upper chest spots of copper color to help balance the new generation of neck hackles on her pullets, tail angles, etc.

A breeder who has culled carefully also helps take out many DQ genetic defects out of their flock...like split wings, carnation combs, comb sprigs, legs with no feathers, fused toes, and work on other fault problems this breed has like white feathers in the tail or wings, mossy hens, hackle halo, feathers on middle toes, black eyes, etc. But it takes time to breed these things out. Egg color, egg size and amount the hen lays is also things good breeders work toward. Combs are nearly the last thing worked on.

So, you can see, if you do research, then search for eggs, then it will be less about egg cost, but more about what value are you getting for your money?

Example... if you buy 5 dz cheap eggs and don't get one chick who lays a #4 or darker egg, or, who all have all kinds of big problems of some sort so they are all hodge podge and only PQ. Then, you purchased 5 dz. from a breeder, but get maybe- 7? who are exceptional or SQ, 10 breeders, 5 who lay dark eggs and look nice too, but can be in the laying pen, any of them can also be pets. So, which birds are more valuable...? The birds only worth pet value, or the birds with resale value? IMO, if you plan on breeding these birds, find the best quality stock you can find for better birds. They cut out years of feeding culls.

If you want to know more about them, I recommend reading the entire 900 pg. BCM discussion thread. I did, and it explained so many things.
Hopefully this helps...

 

[HickoryHollow]

You asked, so here goes: BCM are a complicated rare breed that takes a tremendous amount of time, patience and energy to build a quality flock. A quality flock does not come cheap.

Anyone can find inexpensive eggs out there, but with these guys, buyer beware! You usually get what you pay for. We found this out the hard way by unintentionally buying breeder's culls.

This breed is still in its infancy in the USA and so they have many issues. High quality flocks with few faults are in short supply. They were only accepted into the APA in 2011, so they have many things to work on still. I would never buy any eggs without seeing the parents first, asking in-depth questions about their flock, and what the breeder is currently working on, and getting a piece of egg that the parent hen lays first. Marans have to lay at least a #4 on the Marans scale to BE a Marans, and #4 is a pretty light egg.

If you are only looking to have darkish eggs and really don't care what you have for hens as you won't ever sell them- then it won't matter at all, and you can get them from anyone selling. However, if you plan on selling quality hatching eggs or chicks- what you have for eggs matters... alot! As if you breed this line without research, you run the risk of ruining your line in only just 3 generations because you didn't know, or, take into account certain aspects of the breed that is extremely important... like, breeding two parents who have the same fault. (Say, white feathers on both, or two parents without leg feathers.) You run the risk of locking in a bad fault if you do that.

Getting dark hatching eggs from a contentious breeder is the best way to get the best quality controlled eggs- but they often cost more, depending on how long the breeder has worked with their flock, how streamlined or fault free the flock is, if the parents are rare SQ and have won awards, or cost of the birds in their area, etc.., there are many additional factors. Doing intense research is imperative if you plan to stick with them for more than a year, and want to help improve the breed.

Ideally, parent stock should have been bred to have good body 'type,' with an eye toward toward SOP standards to get a correct bird. Even with correct birds good breeders often hatch 200 or more chicks per year, then, cull down to the 8-10 best breeders for the year. With these birds, it's not about finding and breeding the two best birds, it is about breeding in what the other parent lacks. For instance, A short backed rooster with otherwise good type and correct body angle should have a long backed hen. A black hen without neck hackles should have a well balanced rooster with up to 10 upper chest spots of copper color to help balance the new generation of neck hackles on her pullets, tail angles, etc.

A breeder who has culled carefully also helps take out many DQ genetic defects out of their flock...like split wings, carnation combs, comb sprigs, legs with no feathers, fused toes, and work on other fault problems this breed has like white feathers in the tail or wings, mossy hens, hackle halo, feathers on middle toes, black eyes, etc. But it takes time to breed these things out. Egg color, egg size and amount the hen lays is also things good breeders work toward. Combs are nearly the last thing worked on.

So, you can see, if you do research, then search for eggs, then it will be less about egg cost, but more about what value are you getting for your money?

Example... if you buy 5 dz cheap eggs and don't get one chick who lays a #4 or darker egg, or, who all have all kinds of big problems of some sort so they are all hodge podge and only PQ. Then, you purchased 5 dz. from a breeder, but get maybe- 7? who are exceptional or SQ, 10 breeders, 5 who lay dark eggs and look nice too, but can be in the laying pen, any of them can also be pets. So, which birds are more valuable...? The birds only worth pet value, or the birds with resale value? IMO, if you plan on breeding these birds, find the best quality stock you can find for better birds. They cut out years of feeding culls.

If you want to know more about them, I recommend reading the entire 900 pg. BCM discussion thread. I did, and it explained so many things.
Hopefully this helps...

I understand all that, but that doesn't change the fact I can buy peeps already hatched from the same flock for 50 cents a piece cheaper than I can take a chance on hatching eggs from the same flock. Why would I buy eggs that may or may not hatch for more money than I can buy peeps out of the same flock? That doesn't make sense!

 

[One Chick Two]

I understand all that, but that doesn't change the fact I can buy peeps already hatched from the same flock for 50 cents a piece cheaper than I can take a chance on hatching eggs from the same flock. Why would I buy eggs that may or may not hatch for more money than I can buy peeps out of the same flock? That doesn't make sense!

Okay, now I understand. Sounds like that breeder is encouraging potential buyers to purchase their chicks at discount, rather than encouraging purchasing hatching eggs so they can do quality control, with less possible refunds.

Have to say, that seems pretty smart of the seller to me... if they manage large hatches at a time for economy.
The seller then can then be more assured buyers would be well pleased with their line of chicks. They can cull at farm for chick vigor, genetic defects, obvious SOP concerns (lack of leg feathering, etc), and have much less problems with future refunds, and the buyer usually gets all the healthy chicks they pay for. Whereas hatching eggs can be more of a gamble (via shipping, poor incubation, poor fertility, etc) and the seller often has to offer refunds. Yes, sounds like buying chicks from them is the way to go with them.

However, for myself, I would still want the eggs, so I could see all egg color and collect the eggshells for future reference, and to see any defective chicks so I know what kinds of things are really popping up in the flock...