A Swede in France
Chirping
- Mar 5, 2023
- 67
- 186
- 86
Fellow chicken-lovers,
I am still a relative beginner, and I feel like we are having really bad luck lately. Two months ago, our Brahma Astrid died - described in detail here. We also had one hen, Sumo, prolapse then get egg bound this weekend past (seems all good now!) - and now our little black fluff Susuwatari seems close to death. So here I am again - even if it might just be for support in finding the strength to put her down. This is quite long because I like keeping track. Hopefully it's useful also for others.
Susu is an 11-12 month old silke hen who's been with us for 5 months. We got her at a farm shop that has lots of chickens and lots of varieties, so as LaFleche pointed out to me - a likely place to bring home all kinds of illnesses. She is vaccinated against Newcastle, Marek's and IB - although I know they can still be carriers.
She lives in a mixed flock with 12 others, and free-ranges every day, usually from about 10:30 am until bedtime. She has free access to layer's pellets and water. She does not have access to a compost or other such tempting places. There's sand and grit all over the place so we don't offer anything beyond what's there. There are currently no or very few mites in the coop. We give them a herbal dewormer monthly, and vitamins as well as apple cider vinegar in the water regularly. The weather has been very dry and warm for the past 3 months - around 30 c in the day, down to 10 at night (we live in the mountains). We live in an area with lots of wildlife so there are wild birds around, mostly songbirds and birds of prey - I rarely see a pigeon although I hear them in the forest.
So now on to the illness - and a few caveats. Firstly, I know that I am partly here hanging on to the slim hope that it might not be Marek's and that she might survive, even though it probably is and even though we likely should end her life. Secondly, we panicked a bit and threw a lot of medicines at her.
Either way, maybe this can help someone else at some point - I sure get a lot out of reading other people's posts.
All what's below is really background to ask you
Thursday morning October 6:
Slight swelling on one side of the face, a bit fluffed up. Great appetite. We have had several instances of respiratory illness and a few swollen faces previously successfully treated by rapid intervention with doxycyline, so we gave her that.
Friday Oct 7 and Sat Oct 8:
The swelling was gone the next day but she had progressively less appetite and displayed more signs of being unwell - standing apart, fluffed up, not moving so much. At the same time another one of the girls got egg bound so we were back and forth to the vet's multiple times to deal with that emergency, meaning we did not observe Susu as closely as we should have, and also didn't isolate her. When we got home from hospital with Sumo, now the proud layer of an egg, we brought Susu inside to isolate her, give TLC, and monitor more closely.
Sunday Oct 9:
No improvement. No symptoms or respiratory infection at all. Because of this and because Astrid (the Brahma) dired two months ago with what the vet suspected was chlamydiosis, for which she prescribed baytril - we decided to switch Susu to baytril. Astrid died with a throat full of lesions, but without the smell and pus of canker - still, we were scared Susu might have canker of the crop since she stopped eating but didn't show any other symptoms. So we sourced some dimetridazole (from an emergecy vet who looked at Astrid's history to confirm we had reasons to worry), and gave her that too in the afternoon.
This was a day of rapid decline. Susu was not eating or drinking, and starting to show signs of ataxia and one leg not working properly. She could still hold herself up and walk, albeit slowly and clumsily. Her poops looked like those of a starving chicken - full of urates, clear mucus, and bile green matter. There were no swellings anywhere, no sign of visible canker, no sour crop smells or the like.
We started to crop feed her a mix of fortified egg food for exotic birds mixed with water and blended into a thick paste. Fed her 20 ml.
From now on you might want to read our detailed log with pictures that I keep for our own sakes - more and more diligently
Monday Oct 9
Still weak and immobile. Very little pooping.
8:30: Gave her baytril and dimetridazole in 5ml of water first thing, followed by approx 10 ml of Orlux fruitti patee. After reading more, we started a rehydration and crop feeding protocol (thank you @casportpony)
10:15: Gave approx 20 ml of warm electrolytes with honey. Much easier than the food (less resistance from Susu)
12:00: gave another 20ml electrolyte with honey. Tried to feed a grape, she was interested but not able to peck and grab.
After not pooping for a long time, Susu did a big one. Still just mucous, urate and green stuff, but much more substantial than in the past days.
Crop mostly liquid now, and empties in good order.
14:00 Fed approx 20 ml of patee mixed with water. Susu has no balance and keeps listing to the right, with one wing out and a tendency to turn her head to the right. Since yesterday. Very off balance when walking.
16:30: fed another 20 ml pâtée. Susu has no balance, falls over, has ataxia, very heavy rapid breathing, stands as if very hot, and later starts spasming (around 5.30).
19:00 Susu is lying flat on her belly, breathing more normally. We're hoping the neurological symptoms are from reaction to the dimetridazole and are hanging on to the hope she will survive until tomorrow.
Morning - slight improvement in attitude but not in muscle tonus. She's lying, trouble standing, leg seems off but is not stiff. No spasms. No visible leisons anywhere. Abdomen normal. No poop since noon yesterdat which is troubling. She eats a few pieces of egg.
8:30, 28ml electrolyte with honey
9.30, massive poop! A lot of liquid (absorbed by towel) as well as green matter
09:45, 28 ml pâtée, 7 ml electrolyte
11:00, 20ml pâtée with some yoghurt for probiotics, 7 ml electrolyte, 0.05 meloxicam for pain, 0.05 baytril (half daily dose acc to vet)
14:00 checked her but crop still seemed quite full. She is now very uncomfortable and flailing.
16:00 28 pâtée 7 liquids. We think she reacts adversely to the medicine. She seemed a lot worse after we gave it to her at 11. Heavy breathing open mouth. Left leg completely useless, but not rigid.
Built her a sling to be more comfortable and upright. She seems to like it. Beak is now closed and she's peaceful after crop feeding. She showed interest in a mealworm earlier, and managed to eat half a peeled grape by herself.
18:00 ate a grape and a half with some interest but turns away head after. Maybe in pain from eating?
19:00, 0.06 of meloxicam. Another big poop, liquid, urates, green stuff. Crop still quite full so no more feeding or fluids.
Midnight: crop is ok so feeding 30 ml of patee
The idea is today take her off all medication and instead give maximum support to her system to see if she revives or improves at all. If no improvement, we must consider killing her. So - we give pain meds just in case, but nothing else. we continue hydration and crop feeding. We sourced real probiotics, vitamin B complex and vitamin E on the offchance that her digestion is shot because of the antibiotics and that the lame leg is because of vitamin deficiency.
Big poop in the morning, same like style as before, and one a bit later around noon too. Substantial but abnormal. Susu slept in the sling. She is more withdrawn, doesn’t move much and has her eyes closed more, almost all the time. Quite unresponsive to stimuli like noise and movement, only rouses when we touch her. She occasionally puts up a very mild fight when I crop feed her, but hardly even that. Her eyes look normal when they are open. No lesions anywhere that I can see. No swelling anywhere.
One of Susu's legs seems to hold her weight and be strong. The other has no tonus but is mobile when manipulated, and her toes close around my finger so she has some control (or some reflex?). Her wings seem mobile but the left one is possibly also impacted. Her beak is closed, her breating is normal. It's like she's sleeping
I have been feeding, hydrating, and giving the probiotics and vitamins in high doses. Now really only waiting to see if anything changes before making a decision whether to end her suffering. I suspect we are being very selfish, but then I would not want people to give up on me if I got ill so...
Here she is right now. The yellow stuff on her beak is food. Her lame leg is the one further away from the camera.
I am still a relative beginner, and I feel like we are having really bad luck lately. Two months ago, our Brahma Astrid died - described in detail here. We also had one hen, Sumo, prolapse then get egg bound this weekend past (seems all good now!) - and now our little black fluff Susuwatari seems close to death. So here I am again - even if it might just be for support in finding the strength to put her down. This is quite long because I like keeping track. Hopefully it's useful also for others.
Susu is an 11-12 month old silke hen who's been with us for 5 months. We got her at a farm shop that has lots of chickens and lots of varieties, so as LaFleche pointed out to me - a likely place to bring home all kinds of illnesses. She is vaccinated against Newcastle, Marek's and IB - although I know they can still be carriers.
She lives in a mixed flock with 12 others, and free-ranges every day, usually from about 10:30 am until bedtime. She has free access to layer's pellets and water. She does not have access to a compost or other such tempting places. There's sand and grit all over the place so we don't offer anything beyond what's there. There are currently no or very few mites in the coop. We give them a herbal dewormer monthly, and vitamins as well as apple cider vinegar in the water regularly. The weather has been very dry and warm for the past 3 months - around 30 c in the day, down to 10 at night (we live in the mountains). We live in an area with lots of wildlife so there are wild birds around, mostly songbirds and birds of prey - I rarely see a pigeon although I hear them in the forest.
So now on to the illness - and a few caveats. Firstly, I know that I am partly here hanging on to the slim hope that it might not be Marek's and that she might survive, even though it probably is and even though we likely should end her life. Secondly, we panicked a bit and threw a lot of medicines at her.
Either way, maybe this can help someone else at some point - I sure get a lot out of reading other people's posts.
All what's below is really background to ask you
- Do you think this is Marek's? What speaks for, what speaks against?
- Do you think there is ANY chance of a recovery?
- Do you think she could have had adverse reactions to medication? We think we were safe with the dosage and followed vet's advice.
- What could we have done differently/what should we learn here?
- Should we stop hoping and help her pass on (my heart is breaking, but I am sure you know that)
Thursday morning October 6:
Slight swelling on one side of the face, a bit fluffed up. Great appetite. We have had several instances of respiratory illness and a few swollen faces previously successfully treated by rapid intervention with doxycyline, so we gave her that.
Friday Oct 7 and Sat Oct 8:
The swelling was gone the next day but she had progressively less appetite and displayed more signs of being unwell - standing apart, fluffed up, not moving so much. At the same time another one of the girls got egg bound so we were back and forth to the vet's multiple times to deal with that emergency, meaning we did not observe Susu as closely as we should have, and also didn't isolate her. When we got home from hospital with Sumo, now the proud layer of an egg, we brought Susu inside to isolate her, give TLC, and monitor more closely.
Sunday Oct 9:
No improvement. No symptoms or respiratory infection at all. Because of this and because Astrid (the Brahma) dired two months ago with what the vet suspected was chlamydiosis, for which she prescribed baytril - we decided to switch Susu to baytril. Astrid died with a throat full of lesions, but without the smell and pus of canker - still, we were scared Susu might have canker of the crop since she stopped eating but didn't show any other symptoms. So we sourced some dimetridazole (from an emergecy vet who looked at Astrid's history to confirm we had reasons to worry), and gave her that too in the afternoon.
This was a day of rapid decline. Susu was not eating or drinking, and starting to show signs of ataxia and one leg not working properly. She could still hold herself up and walk, albeit slowly and clumsily. Her poops looked like those of a starving chicken - full of urates, clear mucus, and bile green matter. There were no swellings anywhere, no sign of visible canker, no sour crop smells or the like.
We started to crop feed her a mix of fortified egg food for exotic birds mixed with water and blended into a thick paste. Fed her 20 ml.
From now on you might want to read our detailed log with pictures that I keep for our own sakes - more and more diligently
Monday Oct 9
Still weak and immobile. Very little pooping.
8:30: Gave her baytril and dimetridazole in 5ml of water first thing, followed by approx 10 ml of Orlux fruitti patee. After reading more, we started a rehydration and crop feeding protocol (thank you @casportpony)
10:15: Gave approx 20 ml of warm electrolytes with honey. Much easier than the food (less resistance from Susu)
12:00: gave another 20ml electrolyte with honey. Tried to feed a grape, she was interested but not able to peck and grab.
After not pooping for a long time, Susu did a big one. Still just mucous, urate and green stuff, but much more substantial than in the past days.
Crop mostly liquid now, and empties in good order.
14:00 Fed approx 20 ml of patee mixed with water. Susu has no balance and keeps listing to the right, with one wing out and a tendency to turn her head to the right. Since yesterday. Very off balance when walking.
16:30: fed another 20 ml pâtée. Susu has no balance, falls over, has ataxia, very heavy rapid breathing, stands as if very hot, and later starts spasming (around 5.30).
19:00 Susu is lying flat on her belly, breathing more normally. We're hoping the neurological symptoms are from reaction to the dimetridazole and are hanging on to the hope she will survive until tomorrow.
Tuesday October 10
After seeing rapid presentation of scary neurological symptoms after giving dimetridazole we decide to not give more. We also do not administed baytril first thing in the morning, so that we can better judge any reactions to that medication.Morning - slight improvement in attitude but not in muscle tonus. She's lying, trouble standing, leg seems off but is not stiff. No spasms. No visible leisons anywhere. Abdomen normal. No poop since noon yesterdat which is troubling. She eats a few pieces of egg.
8:30, 28ml electrolyte with honey
9.30, massive poop! A lot of liquid (absorbed by towel) as well as green matter
09:45, 28 ml pâtée, 7 ml electrolyte
11:00, 20ml pâtée with some yoghurt for probiotics, 7 ml electrolyte, 0.05 meloxicam for pain, 0.05 baytril (half daily dose acc to vet)
14:00 checked her but crop still seemed quite full. She is now very uncomfortable and flailing.
16:00 28 pâtée 7 liquids. We think she reacts adversely to the medicine. She seemed a lot worse after we gave it to her at 11. Heavy breathing open mouth. Left leg completely useless, but not rigid.
Built her a sling to be more comfortable and upright. She seems to like it. Beak is now closed and she's peaceful after crop feeding. She showed interest in a mealworm earlier, and managed to eat half a peeled grape by herself.
18:00 ate a grape and a half with some interest but turns away head after. Maybe in pain from eating?
19:00, 0.06 of meloxicam. Another big poop, liquid, urates, green stuff. Crop still quite full so no more feeding or fluids.
Midnight: crop is ok so feeding 30 ml of patee
October 11 - today
955 grammes, meaning she’s lost 40 grammes in 3 daysThe idea is today take her off all medication and instead give maximum support to her system to see if she revives or improves at all. If no improvement, we must consider killing her. So - we give pain meds just in case, but nothing else. we continue hydration and crop feeding. We sourced real probiotics, vitamin B complex and vitamin E on the offchance that her digestion is shot because of the antibiotics and that the lame leg is because of vitamin deficiency.
Big poop in the morning, same like style as before, and one a bit later around noon too. Substantial but abnormal. Susu slept in the sling. She is more withdrawn, doesn’t move much and has her eyes closed more, almost all the time. Quite unresponsive to stimuli like noise and movement, only rouses when we touch her. She occasionally puts up a very mild fight when I crop feed her, but hardly even that. Her eyes look normal when they are open. No lesions anywhere that I can see. No swelling anywhere.
One of Susu's legs seems to hold her weight and be strong. The other has no tonus but is mobile when manipulated, and her toes close around my finger so she has some control (or some reflex?). Her wings seem mobile but the left one is possibly also impacted. Her beak is closed, her breating is normal. It's like she's sleeping
I have been feeding, hydrating, and giving the probiotics and vitamins in high doses. Now really only waiting to see if anything changes before making a decision whether to end her suffering. I suspect we are being very selfish, but then I would not want people to give up on me if I got ill so...
Here she is right now. The yellow stuff on her beak is food. Her lame leg is the one further away from the camera.
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I had COVID at the same time and was pretty sick and extra emotional about her death. Not a good week for us. 
