Is This An Araucana?

[philbfarm]

I actually find this all very,very interesting - The best thread I've read. Honestly...I truly respect all sides here. What I call "Stella" is not that important to me. The question was more out of curiosity and a learning point of view.

I have spent most of my adult life rescuing animals...dogs, cats, anything and everything. I have three purebreed dogs right not that were either from puppy mills or rescues. I wonder, are we making a comparison along the lines of reputable dog breeders and puppy mills? So does this come down to breeders vs. hatcheries? If I was looking to breed or show my birds, no question - I would seek out a reputable breeder. Are we politely saying that we should not use hatcheries? I see how passionate you all are on this subject. I think this will be one of those breeds that remain hard to define for most of us outsiders (non-breeders).

 

[philbfarm]

...and thank you dretd and friends, wonderful information, conversation and wisdom

 

[dretd]

I actually find this all very,very interesting - The best thread I've read. Honestly...I truly respect all sides here. What I call "Stella" is not that important to me. The question was more out of curiosity and a learning point of view.

I have spent most of my adult life rescuing animals...dogs, cats, anything and everything. I have three purebreed dogs right not that were either from puppy mills or rescues. I wonder, are we making a comparison along the lines of reputable dog breeders and puppy mills? So does this come down to breeders vs. hatcheries? If I was looking to breed or show my birds, no question - I would seek out a reputable breeder. Are we politely saying that we should not use hatcheries? I see how passionate you all are on this subject. I think this will be one of those breeds that remain hard to define for most of us outsiders (non-breeders).

I am glad you are finding value in the discussion and not hijacked!

I actually would not compare hatcheries to puppy mills at all. There are some very good things about hatcheries not the least of which is consistent biosecurity. I would compare hatcheries to a high-volume dairy operation where the goal is to produce as many productive replacement calves as possible vs the breeder that will show the best/most typical cow of that breed. If you want a really productive bird and don't care what they look like, then I would get mine from a hatchery (and I have). A lot of 4H kids get their chicks from hatcheries, show them and win ribbons so its not as if the chickens are all off-type, its just not the main focus of the hatchery.

I think the puppy mill vs breeder is more along the lines of comparing a reputable breeder trying to improve their chicken breed to a backyard breeder that has some chickens and is trying to hatch chicks for resale. Again, the quality breeder will be very concerned about his flock with regard to biosecurity and may be NPIP registered and will cull out undesirable traits. The puppy mill type breeder may get birds at auction or other sources and not quarantine prior to introducing them to the flock so the chicks you get may have diseases you don't know about and they may not cull out the inferior birds because they might not even know what the breed standard is. That's where you get folks selling Americanas as Ameraucanas. They got their stock from a hatchery and decided to hatch and sell their own. I don't think they intentionally try to mislead anyone--they are just going by what they were sold.

 

[philbfarm]

Gosh, not hijacked at all! I agree with you...but many of the folks that have posted on this subject express feeling misled by hatcheries, and are somewhat disappointed or feel taken. At some point, I would think some people have contacted them pointing out that these birds are not what they are advertised to be. Unintentional or not,how does this get fixed?

 

[philbfarm]

Oh...and it's funny, but I was corrected yesterday by my daughter. She told me that the breeder that sold me Iris (my Easter Egger) sold her to me as an Silver Ameracana. He was saying that Easter Egger and Ameracana as the same breed?!? - She is in the picture in my previous post with Stella....

 

[CibolaChooks]

dretd. For the most part i dont care at all except for the confusion around the breed. Which the site pele gave and info you have fiven informed me as to why its is so confusing. Like fhilbfarm says this has all been very helpful and i appreciate all the help. as for the EE's i have (lmao) i just love them also. They were an impulse buy from the start and wernt really planned for anyway, but they have become my favorites. I love birds and animals of all types so the info you guys have given i will definitely go to good use. I would like to be a breeder someday and i will definitely remember all this.

 

[dretd]

Oh...and it's funny, but I was corrected yesterday by my daughter. She told me that the breeder that sold me Iris (my Easter Egger) sold her to me as an Silver Ameracana. He was saying that Easter Egger and Ameracana as the same breed?!? - She is in the picture in my previous post with Stella....

Actually I remember seeing her when you posted the photo and I was thinking, wow she looks kinda like a Sliver Ameraucana, cuz thats my favorite color--what a gorgeous bird! You could post photos (full body from the side, include legs and a front on of her head with comb) of her and you might even want to start a new thread with just her or post to the Ameraucana thread to get more folks that are experts on the breed, not haveing had one myself (just my Amer'i'cana

thats what got me started researching all the history of the breed in the first place, getting an unexpected color as a newb and wondering what happened--what a can of worms but all highly interesting).

 

[GoodwinMaine]

I find that people here WANT you to identify them. I love different birds so we have a little of everything. I am interested to know what people think, but really don't care "what" they are... they are chickens! and cute! and either lay eggs or make babies I like bantams too... tiny little cuties!

 

[philbfarm]

X2...GoodwinMaine, but I am eager to learn too. And thank you dretd, Iris is one of my very favorite birds. But after the uproar I've started - I'm a bit afraid to ask, LOL!!!

 

[Pele]

I agree that you can't directly compare hatcheries to puppy mills. Some of them actually produce really high quality birds. In fact, the hatchery that I bought my first EE from gave me a bird that is aaaaaaaaaaalmost standard for a Silver Ameraucana:

My EE


Ameraucana.org's pic of Silver Ameraucana:



Amazing huh?

Now, you do have SOME hatcheries that may be like puppymills in certain key ways. One being poor genetics (which is terrible, in my mind). There recently was a really big problem with a large popular hatchery (not naming names) last year with their Faverolles. Not only were they producing off-color and off-standard birds, but the birds had deformed skulls, and were mentally deficient even for a chicken. Also, it is a very common practice for a lot of hatcheries to de-beak their breeding population, which a lot of buyers find to be morally troubling when they find out.

But, you can't just throw out all hatcheries with the bad ones. They have their place, especially when it comes to people who just want cheap, easy, low-maintenance chickens. Or high-production layers and hybrids. That's how I started my first flock, and it was a really good experience. I did decide to move on to high-quality purbreds from a reputable breeder (and there is a noticeable quality difference), but I never regretted my first chicken exposure.