Is this sexual dimorphism at hatch?

[nicalandia]

But wild type and wheaten birds feather in differently with their first set of feathers. Way before any thing close to maturity.

The maturity rate at which a cockerel starts to feather out with its mature phenotype will vary from one bird to the other one, even hatch mates, it has nothing to do with the e allele mutation.

Color Sexual Dimorphism is related to the synthesis/Conversion of Androgen(for Roosters) to Estrogen(for hens) at the Skin level. The Henny feathering basically transform the rooster's normal Androgen activity at the skin level to Estrogen and that causes female feather.

Similar results can be obtained if one applies Androgen to roosters skin for example on this study: Variation in Plumage Response of Brown Leghorn Capons to Oestrone https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/pdf/10.1098/rspb.1935.0050

And Females when their ovaries are damaged they start to transition to a pseudo rooster state, their skin no longer start synthetizing Estrogen but Androgen, they will produce male like feather pattern: https://www.livescience.com/13514-sex-change-chicken-gertie-hen-bertie-cockerel.html

 

[The Moonshiner]

I don't feel like we're on the same page. I wasn't talking anything about hens getting rooster plumage or roosters having hennie feathers.
OP was talking about patterns where the males and females feather in differently like wheaten and was referring to that with their post. You mentioned BBRs and the at maturity thing. I just commented that duckwing feathered in differently simular to the wheaten and it had nothing to do with when they reach maturity.
IDK where going now.
Your off the path I was on. Hope OP is still on or was on the path I was or I'm totally lost.

 

[nicalandia]

I don't feel like we're on the same page.

We are on the Feather Color Sexual Dimorphism page, aren't we? Males get their black breast phenotype due to hormonal changes(otherwise they would look wheaten just like hens do).

The OP said he/she did not know how Sexual Dimorphism works on Wheaten chickens, I said it was about sexual hormones interaction at the skin level(Androgen vs Estrogen) .

I brought up the Henny Feathering gene(Autosomal Hf mutation, hf+ wildtype) because that gene inhibits the normal sex hormone interaction on rooster's skin, producing males that are wheaten color.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Lol. I think we might be. Problem is I'm a simple hillbilly. I have no idea what "Dimorphism" means let alone something as fancy sounding as "Feather Color Sexual Dimorphism"
What I do know is that males and females feather different in wheaten and wild type as well as others.
What I don't get is you talk about when they reach maturity and hormones or whatever.
Those birds feather out differently from a few weeks old. Not when close to maturity or when they get adult plumage.
That's what I'm not getting.

 

[nicalandia]

What I don't get is you talk about when they reach maturity and hormones or whatever.
Those birds feather out differently from a few weeks old. Not when close to maturity or when they get adult plumage.
That's what I'm not getting.

as to when cockerels start feathering out their black breast/underside is subject to breed, humans have been selecting for faster and faster-maturing birds, the original Red Jungle Fowl matures at a slower rate and roosters even molt their hackles when not in the breeding season which does not happen on domestic chickens.

Interestingly enough this 6 week old Red Jungle Fowl cockerel is crowing at 6 week of age while still showing his chick down and still transitioning from female looking feathers to cockerels feathers.

 

[The Moonshiner]

as to when cockerels start feathering out their black breast/underside is subject to breed.

Don't they all feather IN black?
Every breed I've had feathered in black and yes the different breeds do mature at different rates. Some are quite drastic in the difference they take to mature but I don't see that has anything to do with it.
Even the slowest to mature breeds I've had still went from down to feathers at about the same rate. They've all got breast feathers at around 3 or 4 weeks.
So if they all get the black breasts at about the same time and some mature by 6 months and others can take closer to a year it makes even less sense that it has anything to do with their maturity.

 

[nicalandia]

So if they all get the black breasts at about the same time and some mature by 6 months and others can take closer to a year it makes even less sense that it has anything to do with their maturity.

I've seen male chicks with salmon breasts that transition to all black at a later age(3-6 week old range)


cockerel on the right, pullet on the left

It happens in Welsummers all of the time.